Surface shooting and water drop problems

[OE2X]

Any ideas on what to coat the front element of my housing with to keep water drops from forming? I would like to be able to shoot some surface or 1/2 U/W shots, but the drops distort the above water part. Nose grease doesn't really work that well.
Thanks in advance.

[Gilligan]

Couple of suggestion:
1. If only to take a few pics apply some mask defog and dunk the camera then shoot the pics.
2. Use a product called rainX (http://www.rainx.com/frame_auto_glass.htm)

[OE2X]

I've never thought of that. Have to give that a try. Doesn't RainX just bead the water? That's what it does on my windshield. This is the problem I'm trying to avoid. Thanks for your help.

[marpacifica]

I've also wondered how to get rid of those problem drops. I think the main culprit, though, is any film of water on the lens. I'm pretty sure RainX will minimize this. The film of water will distort light and can't really be brushed off. RainX does allow drops of water to bead, but by forming a protective layer on the lens so that the drops don't collect and linger long enough to coat the lens. I will try this today. RainX directions say to use two applications of the product. I know that when I use it on my windshield, I don't even have to use wipers. Just driving around will force the droplets to run off the windshield, so I'm thinking that a couple of good shakes of the housing or blowing on the lens will remove enough of the drops to take a decent pic.

[Gilligan]

When you check out the Rain-X I noticed they have a marine one that states it is safe on plexiglass. This one may be better in case you accidentaly get it on the plastic housing.
Just a thought.

[jebir]

An extra coat of anything on a multicoated lens, filter, or port may cause the multi coating to fail and mot eliminate reflections. It may even cause certain colours to be reflected and others to be transmitted through the glass, giving a stain in the pictures. I would be very cautious with any such products on anything designed to take pictures through.

Cheers, Jens

[Gilligan]

Good point jebir.
Hopefully someone will repond that has used the Rain-X.

[TedJ]

I remember this discussion almost a year ago, but I don't remember which board. It got a bit heated primarily on the subject of "cleaning" lenses. It seems to me that Rain-X was not a popular solution, rather the anti-fog. But it does build up and affect the capturing of an image. Sorry, that's all I can recall.
TEdJ

[marpacifica]

Well, I tried the RainX today. The stuff seemed to work on the first few photos, but about 10 minutes in the seawater and the coating seemed to lose its effectiveness and water began forming noticeable beads and film on the lens. Here are two photos taken 10 minutes apart in the Grotto, a popular cavern dive in Saipan. Hopefully my one-time use of RainX on my WAL and the lens port haven't done too much damage.

[justleesa]

I was just thinking and I would also take the long term effect of any chemical solution into consideration as there is an o-ring in there somewhere.

And the waterdrops just might add a cool effect (see picture).

Try a good shot of air from your octopus, might do the trick.
Lisa

[justleesa]

Well, I tried the RainX today. The stuff seemed to work on the first few photos, but about 10 minutes in the seawater and the coating seemed to lose its effectiveness and water began forming noticeable beads and film on the lens. Here are two photos taken 10 minutes apart in the Grotto, a popular cavern dive in Saipan. Hopefully my one-time use of RainX on my WAL and the lens port haven't done too much damage.

The unwanted effect is quite interesting!
Lisa

[Gilligan]

http://kayakdiver.com/animated/22.gif

marpacifica, thanks for posting the results of your experiment with the Rain-X. It didn't seem to last long. I wonder if the Marine version has any longer lasting effect in salt water?

The times I surfaced, gotten back into my kayak and wanted to take a picture I used mask defog on the housing lens port. It worked fine for a few shots then if needed I just re-applied it. I use the type that is thicker than water like the "Sea Drops" brand.

How long it will survive depth in your BCD pocket is another issue.

[TedJ]

I use the type that is thicker than water like the "Sea Drops" brand.
Me too. The gold one seems to work the best for me.

How long it will survive depth in your BCD pocket is another issue.

Good question. Never done this.
TedJ

[marpacifica]

Gilligan, no problem about posting my unscientific results. After all your helpful tips and contributions on this board, I figured it was the least I could do for learning so much from you. I agree, Lisa, that sometimes the waterdroplets on the lens can give a cool effect to the shot.

The RainX on my windshield seems to work really well for 2-3 rainstorms, and after that I have to put on another coat. So immersion in saltwater may accelerate loss of the RainX on marine surfaces.

Another consideration with the screw-on lenses for the PT series is that there is a gap between the lens port and the back end of the lens, so that's another two lens surfaces you have to deal with. When I took 1/2 air 1/2 underwater shots before using RainX, I noticed that the water levels on the outer lens and the inner gap were different because the water in the gap doesn't drain or fill very quickly through the very small drain vents. I'll post a photo later when I get home.

[Dee]

Lisa.....:thumb: Great shot!

[clementyn]

hi all,

it's a little cumbersome to manage the housing out of the water at the surface while trying to do this, but it has worked with a little help from my buddy (hubb) just fine.

i use the synthetic car washing version of the traditional shammy- just cut a small square out of the larger sheet. (the one i have is the 'del sol' brand from the Target store car washing aisle). i just wring it out, wipe my port or WAL, and voila....

folds up neatly into my thigh pocket.

hope this helps,
lorien

[Gilligan]

http://kayakdiver.com/animated/24.gif

clementyn, you get a Blue Ribbon award for that idea. I love it. I'm going to keep a small piece in my kayak "mini bag" along with my defog, sunscreen, etc.

[rad21]

Complements of EWA:
WATER DROPLETS ON THE FRONT PORT:
Whenever you wish to take a half & half photo; 1/2 of the picture under the water and 1/2 of the picture over the water level, you will find some drops of water sticking to the front port above the water level. To avoid this, rub the outside of the front port with a slice of apple. The fruit acid in the apple will break the surface tension of the water and stop the drops from forming. Depending on the water, salt or fresh, the application must be repeated after 3 to 5 minutes.

[marpacifica]

Hey, I like the apple idea. And when I get hungry, I'll just eat the rest of the apple....

[clementyn]

thanks gilligan,

i forgot to mention to make sure you fresh water rinse the shammy with the rest of your gear, as it will get salt crystal buildup in the pores of the shammy.

lorien :)

[marpacifica]

Here's an example of water momentarily trapped between the lens port and the screw-on WAL. No RainX, so lots of drops on the outside lens. And you can also see the vignetting of the WAL on the topside, without any vignetting underwater.

[TedJ]

Here's an example of water momentarily trapped between the lens port and the screw-on WAL. No RainX, so lots of drops on the outside lens. And you can also see the vignetting of the WAL on the topside, without any vignetting underwater.

Excellent demonstration. Is this with the INON WAL?

[OE2X]

Could I put it in a bottle to apply with a chamois? I just keep wondering how they get the shots of the diver on the reef with the boat in the background and no water drop distortion. It would be nice to have some sort of solution that can easily be applied. Does anyone do any surf photography? Those photographers are always shooting above the surface with their housings. I wonder how they deal with this issue.
I also do a lot of kayaking with my camera in it's housing. I find that it is constantly being sprayed or dripped on while paddling. The drops take away from any spontaneous shooting. I have a lens cover for my aquatica, but I still find that water will get on the front element.

Thanks for all your help on this subject. Please keep the ideas coming.

[marpacifica]

TedJ,

Yes, the photo was with an Inon Type 2 WAL. There's another thread on how that lens doesn't pair very well with my camera, an Oly 4000, but the site I bought the lens from recommended the Type 2 over Type 1. Inon just came out with a detailed list of which lens should be paired with which cameras. I don't have a problem with vignetting underwater, just abovewater.