Padi or BSAC?

[tridacna]

amazing how the subject of cave diving popped into picture, the Op didn't even hint that he's interested in such! :

From the OP.

"Or do, to name something, a cave diving course with Padi if I live at a place where no BSAC branch is available."

That's a strong hint!

 

[Sas]

One more thing: PADI DSAT dive tables are developed according to scientific methodology; whereas BSAC tables seems to be improvised IMO, as they never did nor going to expose how they came up with them (no, they're not based on the Navy's like SSI & CMAS)

NDL times are nearly identical between BSAC and PADI aren't they though? So not sure how it matters.

 

[maged_mmh]

NDL times are nearly identical between BSAC and PADI aren't they though? So not sure how it matters.

maybe but that's not inherited, they use different models: BSAC tables are comression tables; DSAT's are ND.
That's was an example to point out the difference in methodologies, yet, I concur most if not all divers are just riding their computers for that matter.

 

[Sas]

maybe but that's not inherited, they use different models: BSAC tables are comression tables; DSAT's are ND.
That's was an example to point out the difference in methodologies, yet, I concur most if not all divers are just riding their computers for that matter.

If they are almost identical for NDL, then I think criticisms seem irrelevant. BSAC uses a different definition of bottom time too, so that is something to keep in mind when you look at the BSAC tables.

For decompression there are differences, and I have heard (but not verified) that BSAC tables are more aggressive. What real life implications this has had (if any), I have no idea.

Also I don't think it is correct to assume that the BSAC tables were improvised, just because they have not revealed how they have been calculated. It might have been but you don't know

 

[maged_mmh]

If they are almost identical for NDL, then I think criticisms seem irrelevant. BSAC uses a different definition of bottom time too, so that is something to keep in mind when you look at the BSAC tables.

For decompression there are differences, and I have heard (but not verified) that BSAC tables are more aggressive. What real life implications this has had (if any), I have no idea.

Also I don't think it is correct to assume that the BSAC tables were improvised, just because they have not revealed how they have been calculated. It might have been but you don't know

can't see a rationale behind never disclosing their well guarded secret but anyway, as I stated that won't make their divers better nor worse than PADI's, it's just a human nature, for some of us, that we don't trust what we don't know - for myself I wouldn't regard them as validated tables :thinking:
Also, long story short, in recreational diving context, more agressive doesn't sound good at all, don't you think?

 

[Hickdive]

can't see a rationale behind never disclosing their well guarded secret

Well they're produced by BSAC under licence from Dr Hennessy. He's stated that he's not going to discuss them on internet forums but the underlying research has, apparently been published

Also, long story short, in recreational diving context, more agressive doesn't sound good at all, don't you think?

Here's Lippman's take on them, Table 11.11 makes interesting reading, don't you agree?

The essentials of deeper sport ... - Google Books

 

[Sas]

Also, long story short, in recreational diving context, more agressive doesn't sound good at all, don't you think?

Sure.

But, BSAC and PADI tables are very similar in a recreational diving context though? I.e. NDL dives. So this statement is not really relevant to NDL diving with BSAC or PADI tables. Though I notice in the previous post that the Lippmann book says that the BSAC tables are more conservative for NDL diving actually... Interesting. I know they are similar but I was not sure which was more conservative.

 

[maged_mmh]

Well they're produced by BSAC under licence from Dr Hennessy. He's stated that he's not going to discuss them on internet forums but the underlying research has, apparently been published




Here's Lippman's take on them, Table 11.11 makes interesting reading, don't you agree?

The essentials of deeper sport ... - Google Books

AFAIK, nothing published... see this - just at the middle of page#5

Sure.

But, BSAC and PADI tables are very similar in a recreational diving context though? I.e. NDL dives. So this statement is not really relevant to NDL diving with BSAC or PADI tables. Though I notice in the previous post that the Lippmann book says that the BSAC tables are more conservative for NDL diving actually... Interesting. I know they are similar but I was not sure which was more conservative.

as for Lippman's book; keep in mind BSAC has different definition for BT; not clear how Lippman based the comparison.
Now, in order not to drift from th OP enquiry; we're not discussing deco model are we? I just sited an example to emphasize a show-how approach versus know-how one - that's something to do with the agency's philosophy, would it make a difference in diving? no. are you feeling OK with their approach? for me I'm not.

 

[lemoncloud]

Thanks a lot, interesting discussion!

One thing though, guys: Lets drop the cave or cavern diving thing. I already mentioned I just wrote it as some example of something that might not be on offer by everyone, if at all. Let me first do a basic diving course and then we see how things go on, ok? And it's 'she' btw, rather than 'he' :blinking:

maged_mmh: will pop by the BSAC club on Tuesday evening if I'm not offshore then and ask all the questions I have and see what my impression is. Otherwise hubby will have to go alone, or I'll send you a pm if anything specific comes to mind.

 

[QatarDiver]

Hi Lemoncloud, I dive out here in Qatar as well, as others have said, check the instructor first. I've heard that the kit you can hire out here is often old and worn out. If you plan to dive more you will need the same BCD and reg set for here or colder water (if you get a cold water first stage), but try to buy on line or when you return to Europe, the prices here are way too high!