Well awap that comment is a bit asinine. #1 It was not user error. #2 It could have been a service error, but there is no way to prove that. #3. No one can ever say it will never happen again. #4 However, it will never happen again with that particular regulator because it will never be used again so yes common sense would tell most people that issue is resolved. #5 On the off hand chance it does happen again... she will NEVER forget her second stage again! awap, it's easy to sit in a chair on your pc and point fingers. Point is...you don't know how you will react until you actually experience the trauma yourself. When exactly was the last time you inhaled a lung full of sea water??? Thanks for your empathy.
Bonaire accident issues Close Call
- Thread starter Thook
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- bonaire dive accident
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Fin Finder
Contributor
[QUOTE="The problem was quite likely a user or service error."[/QUOTE]
Awap, I am not disputing what you said. I'm just asking for my own enlightenment... What kinds of user error can result in a failure like the OP described?
Thank you.
Awap, I am not disputing what you said. I'm just asking for my own enlightenment... What kinds of user error can result in a failure like the OP described?
Thank you.
K
KeithG
Guest
i am with awap on this one. until you understand what went wrong, you will not be able to avoid it in the future. understanding the root cause and publishing it so others can learn is what this forum is all about. we ask all of these stupid annoying questions because we want to know how we can prevent this from happening to us.
if it was a first stage problem, then going to the octo would not likely have helped?
if it was a service issue, then it WILL happen again the next time you get your new reg serviced if the same monkey works on it. checking the reg should indicate if it was a service issue. i would NOT take it to the LDS that did the last service.
i have had regulator issues that were easily traced back to incorrect service by my LDS. that is why I now service my own regs.
if it was a first stage problem, then going to the octo would not likely have helped?
if it was a service issue, then it WILL happen again the next time you get your new reg serviced if the same monkey works on it. checking the reg should indicate if it was a service issue. i would NOT take it to the LDS that did the last service.
i have had regulator issues that were easily traced back to incorrect service by my LDS. that is why I now service my own regs.
K
KeithG
Guest
Awap, I am not disputing what you said. I'm just asking for my own enlightenment... What kinds of user error can result in a failure like the OP described?
Thank you.[/QUOTE]
mishandling the second stage and sticking your finger into the exhaust port and dislodging the valve may allow water in.
Your wife is alive.
If it was first stage failure and she has already taken in water, octo is probably not much help, and if you and DM were a ways away, it is possible that she did exactly the right thing which was head up. Spending more time with no air and water already in the lungs could have easily lead to a more serious problem.
Bent at the surface is better than drowned on somebody else's air supply.
Just a thought.
If it was first stage failure and she has already taken in water, octo is probably not much help, and if you and DM were a ways away, it is possible that she did exactly the right thing which was head up. Spending more time with no air and water already in the lungs could have easily lead to a more serious problem.
Bent at the surface is better than drowned on somebody else's air supply.
Just a thought.
EricTheDood
Contributor
You're welcome to say that but I'm not obligated to agree with it. Anecdotal evidence of using a 40yo reg isn't convincing when we're talking about probabilistic odds of failure.
All else equal, an older product is going to have a higher failure rate than a newer product, simply because it's been around longer and has had more chance encounters with the elements and mishandling (airline baggage handlers, for example).
So to say that there's nothing wrong with an old piece of equipment as long as it has NEVER been mistreated and all defects are ALWAYS detected really doesn't mean much.
"Proper servicing" is also ambiguous. An LDS tech can replace an O-ring but can't remachine an O-ring groove.
R
redacted
Guest
So, you are saying an older diamond is less reliable than a newer diamond?
But your simplistic point of view is not too far off for many complex devices. The only down-side is the cost of unnecessarily replacing perfectly serviceable devices. And that down-side is all yours as some of us are quite happy to pay you some suitably low price for those things you don't trust any more.
R
redacted
Guest
mishandling the second stage and sticking your finger into the exhaust port and dislodging the valve may allow water in.[/QUOTE]
I was thinking about something like dropping a 2nd stage with a plastic case or failing to do a good inspection before use. Such catastrophic case integrity failures often will show up as a problem when the user does a vacuum test well before it lets the entire ocean in.
The service tech has a few opportunities to do a less that adequate inspection and reuse parts that should have been replaced during service or to make an assembly error that could result in such a failure.
As far as the idea of it being a 1st stage failure, you might try sucking a mouth full of water through a 2nd stage and it's LP hose. Leaving the 1st stage attached, not good for the 1st stage, would just make it even more difficult.
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EricTheDood
Contributor
If you're talking about a manmade diamond used an industrial application, then yes. Even ignoring wear, cyclic fatigue can cause it to fracture prematurely.
Simplistic, sure. Engineering is all about breaking problems down into bite-sized pieces, solving them, and putting them back together.
All this said, what's important is that Thook's wife is alive without any permanent injuries. She was both lucky and unlucky in the same incident. First, there's the reg failure. Second, a CESA in those conditions (60 feet, 10 min dive time) isn't all that extreme, and I think a lot of people in the same situation would not have gotten bent. So maybe she did make the correct decision to head for the surface. What if she had went for her octo and gulped more water?
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