Just to clarify, it's not designated as a research vessel. It's got FL numbers and is registered and owned by my LLC. That's all. As a business it would be a six pack, and a UPV (Un-inspected Passenger Vessel). Totally understand about opinions on the Internet. Just trying to learn a thing or to so I can ask better questions when I talk to the CG (again) and an attorney.
Do I need a licensed Coast Guard Captain?
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scagrotto
Contributor
They've paid to be students, but the boat ride appears to be offered for free to anyone involved in the research project. I don't see much in the way of a legitimate argument that anyone is a paid passenger, but there's the possibility of arguing that. Closest analogy I can offer is college students being permitted to drive college-owned vans without having a chauffeur's license even though their passengers paid to be students. As long as they haven't paid specifically for the ride they're not paying passengers.
If only it was that easy. Is anyone here a government bureaucrat? Just because the regs appear to make it okay doesn't guarantee that the USCG won't offer an interpretation down the road and find a court to agree that a licensed captain was required. FWIW, somehting very much like that happened recently with IRS regulations about transferring IRA funds. I forget the details, but it went against the way almost every CPA had been doing things for many years.
On a somewhat different note, perhaps the boat should be owned and its services donated by a tax exempt charitable corporation. Maybe another or different can of worms, but if I was buying, maintaining, and operating a boat for such purposes it would be nice if the expense was tax-deductible.
I'll presume that any company offering free services to friends or relatives of an owner may have issues to worry about when it results in an expense that is claimed as a tax deduction. OTOH, any employee (you want to avoid that road), partner, or director would presumably be provided with any necessary training at the company's expense. Wouldn't your company want another knowledgeable deckhand or pilot if possible?
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Doubler
Contributor
Wouldn't it be easier just to get your Captains license or hire a licensed Captain? The government will always find a way to screw you so I rather be safe than sorry. Just sayin.
Wookie
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The answer is "It depends". First of all, I would contact the nearest Coast Guard Vessel Inspections branch. They don't know everything, but they will help you find the Coast Guard's answers. Do not ask the guys down at the local Coast Guard station. Those questions aren't their job, but in the spirit of customer service, they will be happy to give you an answer. You need the right answer. Do not expect a fast answer, and it's always best to put your questions in writing. The Coast Guard has 30 days to respond to your e-mail. Second, a commercial insurer will require a licensed captain for the insurance to be valid. The insurance company assumes that a Captain has basic knowledge that we aren't born with, including Rules of the Road and how to read a chart, how to use a radio, etc. By the way, have you looked into vessel insurance with a in-water liability policy? I spend about $1,000 per year per diver for mine. The hull, P&I, oil spill, grounding, alcohol service, terrorism, Jones Act, etc. coverages are cheap compared to in-water liability.
Most grant writing institutions will require something mealy mouthed like "Must be performed in accordance with all applicable local, state, and federal laws, regulations, ....". Some, specifically marine science grants, will specifically require insurance and a Captain. Without knowing your granting authority, it's hard to make a call. I do a fair amount of work for NOAA, and also National Park Service. For NOAA, I have to follow the Draft NOAA charter vessel policy. For NPS, I have to be alive, and that isn't hard and fast.
Metric tons means very little when it comes to boats, except for trailering. The number you are looking for is gross tons, and below 5 gross tons you may not document your vessel. This is good and bad. It's way easier to get commercial insurance on a documented vessel, but the restrictions for documented vessels are onerous. I personally have never seen a research vessel less than 5 gross except the self insured kind owned by a University. I think this will be a tough battle for you.
Short answer is, I do not believe that the law will require you to be licensed for this gig, since your riders will not meet the legal definition of "passenger", which the Coast Guard re-defined this year to make the distinction clearer. I further don't believe you will be able to obtain commercial vessel insurance and will have a hard time getting grants without said license.
markmud
Self Reliant Diver--On All Dives.
Hello Sync,
I would like to combine Wookie's post with Doubler's post. Both posts give good advice.
A 6-pack license is easy to obtain. It is also important that you are competent beyond "yachtie" standards. Go get the 6-pack license.
You lose control of people when they jump in the water. Who knows what might happen, so it is best for you to cover all of your bases and license-up to the hilt. Get DAN training and any other training normally acquired by competent captains in the dive industry (standard in the industry).
Nice to know that USCG has modified its perceived rule of "One six-pack of soda trades hands; therefore, it is a charter."
markm
kafkaland
Contributor
This seems like a very odd set-up to me, in particular how the grant money pays for the operation of the vessel. Grants are typically made to the university, not the individual investigator. So in most cases, the university would own the boat and pay for the operating costs out of the grant, and they would deal with all the liability and licencing issues. Or, they would charter the boat for particular research missions, in which case I would have no doubt that the students, scientists, etc. on board are passengers, as the university pays for their transportation, even if it's just gas money. In which case all the regulations related to the operation of a passenger vessel apply - and the university better make sure you comply with those, or their butt my be on the line as well if something goes wrong. In any case, I'd consult an attorney to be sure.
Capt.Robert
New
Yes, if you have passengers for hire you must have a captains license. If more than 6 passengers are onboard. No, if no passengers are for hire.
To be a little more specific, some vessels require a licensed operator(s) irrespective of if the people onboard are paying to be aboard. This applies to all larger Coast Guard inspected commercial vessels. The operators of these vessels are required to be licensed. We are talking mostly commercial vessels here and generally not pleasure boats.
As a general rule of thumb with exceptions, when a pleasure type vessel becomes a business, then the Coast Guard starts requiring licensing.
Rred
Contributor
What knotical said. In America, anyone can sue anyone for anything, and your "guests" have paid tuition so they are conceivably "paying customers". You really should check with your lawyer, ask him/her to research it and respond in writing. Especially as to whether the LLC would be sufficient to stop additional charges against you, personally, as the operator of the vessel. The LLC may own it--but an operator still has liability.
Your insurer has a legal department, ask them for their formal opinion and advice as to any coverage problems that may arise. If they indicate they won't cover something...believe it.
And finally, contact the USCG. Not the local boat station, not the District Headquarters, but USCG HQ nationally, the Commandant's Office and CC: The Office of the Judge Advocate General, asking both for a formal advisory opinion as to whether your operations could require a licensed captain. THEIR statement will probably hold sway in a court, if you ever need it, and if they will give it.
Your insurer has a legal department, ask them for their formal opinion and advice as to any coverage problems that may arise. If they indicate they won't cover something...believe it.
And finally, contact the USCG. Not the local boat station, not the District Headquarters, but USCG HQ nationally, the Commandant's Office and CC: The Office of the Judge Advocate General, asking both for a formal advisory opinion as to whether your operations could require a licensed captain. THEIR statement will probably hold sway in a court, if you ever need it, and if they will give it.
ElmerFudd
New
I think the insurers will turn in to the big dogs on the block. If there is an incident, of any kind, will they step up, or will a non licensed operator be their excuse to weasel out. And it wouldn't necessarily involve the operation of the vessel.
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