Recreational Rebreathers?

[DA Aquamaster]

Fabio is correct. No matter how simple you make it, a rebreather is always going to require a bit more in terms of pre-dive checks and post dive time and maintenance than OC.

Recreational divers who show up a the boat, assemble their gear and kick back until the boat reaches the site, then jump in, get out, (repeat as needed) and then throw their gear in the bag and go knock back a cold one, and then repeat the process the next day are not going to work out all that well as rebreather divers.

As I noted in my prior post, it's not as odious and time consuming as some rebreather divers present it, but it is none the less more involved and more time consuming that prepping and tearing down OC gear.

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Another difference between recreational and technical rebreather diving is what happens when something goes wrong. A technical rebreather course teaches you how to fix the problem and get back on the loop if possible, while the focus in a recreational course is to just bail out.

That's a much easier standard to meet as you're just recognizing when you need to bail and knowing how to make that happen. But it still requires a certain level of discipline to actually do it, rather than trying to deny the issue exists or trying to continue the dive with the issue - no matter how great the dive. Many recreational divers lack that level of discipline.

 

[muzikbiz22]

Recreational divers who show up a the boat, assemble their gear and kick back until the boat reaches the site, then jump in, get out, (repeat as needed) and then throw their gear in the bag and go knock back a cold one, and then repeat the process the next day are not going to work out all that well as rebreather divers.
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Interesting "perception". Perhaps that beer-guzzling, OC diver, that just "threw his gear in his bag", is actually a retired Navy diver, or a helmet diver, or a PSD, or an off duty cop, or a Tec Rebreather instructor that might perhaps train the Navy or other PSD'ers, or is a renown chemistry professor, or a dive shop owner that could "dive circles around everyone on the boat but is actually a modest person that could care less", that might just be relaxing on his day off ? Just like in life, you never know what that persons story is, that's sitting next to you. And yes, these are just some of the people I dive with, both OC and Rebreather. Perhaps I'm interpreting your post/words indifferently, that "OC diver" isn't capable of being a responsible and safe rebreather diver ? I agree that there are those that have no business on a rebreather. But at least give some space here. I've seen plenty of Tec divers screw up and screw stuff up. Don't get me going on ego's and attitudes.

 

[abscuba]

There is a segment of folks here who are "recreational" rebreather divers, by that I mean they approach rebreathers as rental OC gear. The dive explorers which is not an affront to that unit it is a very good unit and I know a lot of divers who use them properly and they work great. This group as described by multiple boat captains requires 4 hours to get in the water and there will always be 1 that won't get to dive that day. I teach recreational divers and I rent out recreational gear so I see how it is treated by divers and used. They are held safe by a grumpy Instructor like me standing there saying don't do that, and I take care of the gear. Put them on a RB with out the Instructor there and you can really have a problem hence the group we have here. Rebreathers can be a great tool for doing non deco dives in recreational limits, but if they are not cared for, dives are not planned, and bailout is not planned for your luck does run out. Recreational RB always ends up in a debate between tech and rec divers with different needs and points of view. As a tech diver we often use RBs and dive to limits but this is done systematically with strict adherence to procedures and planning. RBs are less forgiving than OC and need to be treated that way, but I see it happening here shops get on the its "Recreational" band wagon, and produce divers that are not well trained, maintain the equipment poorly, and are at a high risk for an accident. The explorer is a great unit and if the diver pays good attention to his gear plans his dive and dives his plan then he/she will be safe. That kind of diver is sadly becoming more and more rare.

 

[Robert Thompson]

You might check out the Kiss Spirit LTE. It starts off at 21 lbs and is a very simple lightweight system. It's a fully closed system that uses a 14 cubic foot oxygen bottle and your diluent is fed from your bailout bottle. Sitting about 6 inches off your back it makes for a nice profile.
Being that it's fully closed you get all the CCR advantages plus it breaks down in a few minutes.
You get 3.5 hours of scrubber life in 75 degree water
Depth EAD
90 feet 68 Feet
60 feet 30 feet
50 feet 18 feet
based on a PPO2 of 1.3

 

[t-mac]

You might check out the Kiss Spirit LTE. It starts off at 21 lbs and is a very simple lightweight system. It's a fully closed system that uses a 14 cubic foot oxygen bottle and your diluent is fed from your bailout bottle. Sitting about 6 inches off your back it makes for a nice profile.
Being that it's fully closed you get all the CCR advantages plus it breaks down in a few minutes.
You get 3.5 hours of scrubber life in 75 degree water
Depth EAD
90 feet 68 Feet
60 feet 30 feet
50 feet 18 feet
based on a PPO2 of 1.3

Thanks. I will consider that. Tom

 

[t-mac]

Thanks, abscuba. I think we all have seen the type of diver you describe and we all firmly believe that diver is not us and perhaps we are right. As most of my diving is without a captain or DM, and rather from my own boat or from shore, I can't afford to be that diver, but at least if I am I am not impacting anyone else's day. I am very curious as to evolving safety story around r-rebs. It makes intuitive sense that if you make it easier to get/use, then you are going to get more of "that" kind of diver. While I suspect the lawyers of both Hollis and the cert agencies have pondered this, I wonder if there is any evidence of the reality in terms of accidents. I know the rebreather community follows accidents very carefully and so perhaps there are at least some examples.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

Interesting "perception". Perhaps that beer-guzzling, OC diver, that just "threw his gear in his bag", is actually a retired Navy diver, or a helmet diver, or a PSD, or an off duty cop, or a Tec Rebreather instructor that might perhaps train the Navy or other PSD'ers, or is a renown chemistry professor, or a dive shop owner that could "dive circles around everyone on the boat but is actually a modest person that could care less", that might just be relaxing on his day off ? Just like in life, you never know what that persons story is, that's sitting next to you. And yes, these are just some of the people I dive with, both OC and Rebreather. Perhaps I'm interpreting your post/words indifferently, that "OC diver" isn't capable of being a responsible and safe rebreather diver ? I agree that there are those that have no business on a rebreather. But at least give some space here. I've seen plenty of Tec divers screw up and screw stuff up. Don't get me going on ego's and attitudes.

I suppose you could take it that way and get all insulted - but that's not how it is intended.

I also agree that there are a fair percentage of wannabee technical divers who just aren't ever going to make the grade, but that's a separate issue.

As you state yourself, many OC divers, regardless of occupation, dive to relax. All I'm saying is that if you're going to successfully market a rCCR to the recreational crowd, you need to include those individuals who are not real committed to gear prep and maintenance, or else you are excluding a larger percentage of the potential market. If you don't feel the need to accommodate those individuals, then you just don't need a rCCR/ rSCR in the first place, they can use one of the existing mCCRs or eCCRs out there already.

If an individual diver is committing to do what is needed with a rebreather, that diver is a bit more committed than the average recreational OC diver, and diving is probably more of a lifestyle choice than a hobby for that diver.

As someone noted above, a person with that mindset and training is better described as a technical diver doing shallow, pretty fish dives than they are described as being "recreational".

 

[muzikbiz22]

I suppose you could take it that way and get all insulted - but that's not how it is intended.
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No insult taken, no problem. Your comments are appreciated, and for the most part, I agree with everything you've put forth here