Scary bad Advanced diver.

[JohnnyC]

[QUOTE="JohnnyC, post: 7616562, member: 429324']You can go from being a non-diver to AOW in 10 dives through PADI

with dives like Fish ID and Underwater Naturalist, it's not like many of those dives mean much of anything.

Nine, not 10, but your point is clear.

Deep and Navigation DO mean something, and they are both required.
PPB is the most common first-dive for AOW, and can be taught (within standards) to be VERY meaningful and helpful.
Fish ID and U/W Nat'l can be VERY good classes, but my guess is you have not had them and could not teach them.
I think your point is that an AOW card might not mean much.....but it usually means more than you give it credit for, and it could mean a lot.[/QUOTE]

In the scope of developing skills as a diver, the courses I mentioned don't develop useful skills related to the specific action of diving. Maybe I should have been more clear in specifying that courses like that do not make one an advanced diver skill wise. My ability to teach those courses has nothing to do with the fact that there are people teaching those courses who may do no better a job of instruction, despite being "qualified" to teach.

As for PPB, I agree, it can be great, however it is an elective course, which doesn't necessarily mean it gets taught at all in the course of some divers continuing education. In light of that fact, aside from skill-developing dives like navigation and deep, you could easily obtain an advanced certification with those dives being the only actual dives where skill development takes place.

The fact is that advanced can certainly be beneficial, however, within the frame of 9 dives, one would be hard-pressed to consider someone an advanced diver, regardless of their path of instruction.

 

[DevonDiver]

skill-developing dives like navigation and deep,...

PADI Deep Adventure Dive
Performance Requirements
1. Descend using a line, wall or sloping bottom.
2. Compare changes in color at the surface and at depth.
3. Compare a depth gauge to another diver’s depth gauge.
4. Ascend at a rate not to exceed 18 metres/60 feet per minute using a dive computer (or depth gauge and timing device).
5. Make a safety stop at 5 metres/15 feet for at least three minutes.

Can someone please explain what the skill progression is from OW syllabus?
And further explain how these performance requirements make a diver more capable, or safer, for an extended depth range of diving?

Descend on a line, wall or bottom...."mastered" in Open Water. Yes?
Ascend at below 18m per min... "mastered" in Open Water. Yes?
Make a 3min safety stop at 5m.... "mastered" in Open Water. Yes?

Compare color changes surface/depth....this is OW theory (chapter 1) and NOT a skill.
Compare depth gauges.... NOT a skill.

 

[CuzzA]

Andy, I agree. I thought one aspect of the "experience" was to introduce narcosis to a diver; however, it would seem most people (myself included) aren't affected by narcosis at that depth or it's simply not strong enough to notice.

At least for me my instructor hit us with surprise drills during AOW. On the ascent from the deep dive he hit me out of the blue with a panicky throat slash. It went smooth just like we were trained, but it caught me by surprise. Which I think is a good thing. When is someone being OOA predictable? I recall thinking to myself as it happened, how the hell is my instructor OOA... Then I realized, this is a test. He also had us hold a stop at 50'. I suspect being that he's a tech instructor he is trying to introduce different things to us above and beyond the minimum.

If instructors are just going to do the bare minimum, students aren't going to learn much.

 

[buddhasummer]

I'm doubting they've done 200 dives, even a monkey would pick up some skills after 200 dives.

 

[tursiops]

Maybe I should have been more clear in specifying that courses like that do not make one an advanced diver skill wise.

The title of the cert (AOW) has apparently confused you. It is a cert signifying that you have advanced beyond Open Water. Period. You have 5 Adventure dives. Period.

 

[boulderjohn]

Remember that the Advanced Open Water course was created (and not by PADI) because of the perception that too many people were getting OW certified and then dropping out. At that time, there was no other course (other than instructor) available, so calling it advanced made sense. Although there was some skill work involved from the start for sure, the primary purpose of the course was to expose divers to different kinds of diving in the hope that they will experience something that would interest them and keep them diving. That is why PADI calls the course Adventures in Diving, although they still retain the original name of the certification.

 

[Neilwood]

Hey Guys Im just checking to see how you would deal with this scenario.
Advanced open water diver 200 plus logged dives and recent dives.who had dived only tropical.
Wanted a checkout dive in a 7mm suit.
First issue. They had no idea of how to set up their gear.-Literally not a clue.
Second issue No idea how to put a weight belt on.
Third No clue how to do a calm water beach entry.
Fourth no apparent knowledge on how to empty a BC or how to do a weight check.
fifth No indication of situational awareness ie what was going on around them.
The dive site was of the VERY safe type but this person wants to dive a fair bit more challenging dive site.

Personally I am not surprised that someone can get to 200 dives with the issues above.
Possible reasons for each one:
1) Liveaboard /boat dives where the gear assembly is done by DM
2) Using a jacket type BCD with integrated weights - might never have needed additional weights
3) He has been solely doing boat dives during OW/subsequent dives
4) Back to 1 - assembly/breakdown done by DM
5) Doing liveaboard dives with everything guided it would be easy to let them worry about situational issues.

If all they have dived were benign sites in tropical waters with a DM (guiding and assemling gear) while wearing skin/thin suits It would be relatively easy to let the skills slide.

Presented with this situation, I think you almost have to treat the diver as a refresher with virtually no experience especially if they are looking at more challenging dives as at the moment they are a risk to themselves and their buddy.

If I were to be buddied with the person above and was seeing this during gear assembly I would be having a word with the dive master/dive officer of the group to keep an eye out for problems.

 

[TMHeimer]

I'm doubting they've done 200 dives, even a monkey would pick up some skills after 200 dives.

Good points by Nielwood, but I agree here.

 

[Frosty]

hanks guys- I think as much as anything I was caught by surprise. The general reaction around the south pacific was an eyeroll followed by the comment "yep we see it all the time"
Pretty much Neilwoods reaction.
Right or wrong I think its irresponsible of me to send them on their merry way to do their dives as planned on their own.
They are on vacation in NZ with the next dive opportunity not till the planned offshore dives.
Looks like Im a going diving

 

[chillyinCanada]

I agree with buddhasummer. Somehow I doubt this person has 200 dives though the person might believe that. I met a person last year that claimed to have 1000 dives but had only been certified for a couple of years. No, she wasn't an instructor, nor did she have a clue. We were hard pressed to accept that she'd even ever been breathing off a tank before.