Discussion of dive incidents in Cozumel

[Slym]

It isn't while diving, it is later when the nitrogen bubble forms in the spinal stuff. They try to reduce the bubble through the chamber, but it can also scar I think, making it permanent damage .

Wow that is some scary stuff!

 

[DandyDon]

I had a conversation with a diver who was on that trip. What I was told was that it was a trip with clients and once the injured were on board the captain delayed returning in due to the 4 client divers were still in the water unaware of the incident. Gabby was not participating in the 'bounce diving' but became injured while rescuing Opal when her buddy could not or would not go down and get her from 300+ (?) Ft.

That's the first I' ve heard of that aspect. I remember the accident well, I remember I was camping over Labor day weekend with family when I got a text from Chief about it. and I still stay in touch with her mom on FB altho we don't discuss the accident.

And we could debate on whether Gabby or the "boyfriend" should have gone down that far for the rescue attempt. They teach in Rescue course to not make ourselves the second victim, but it would be difficult to watch that descent without taking the risk.

I was on a Belize dive once on a group trip, diving with a a smaller group of the shop owner couple and one of their DMs when the other three on air descended well below my Nitrox MOD, so I stopped to hover and curse.

Then I saw my Tech Instructor disappear into into the abyss with the two women watching below me. If it'd had just been him & me, and I was on air - I think I would have gone after him for a wrestling match, but with the two pros watching, I waited.

He did survive the bounce with air left to continue the dive, but he was hurt. He denied it, but sit out the next dive and the last day of dives. I was pissed that he planned it, didn't warn me, did it on a group trip, and wouldn't go to the chamber, as well as leaving me alone at my MOD.

 

[ggunn]

Since there's lots of folks on scubaboard who are okay with deep bounce dives...

Where do you get that? I remember several protracted discussions about the incident in here, and I do not remember anyone saying they thought that what Opal, Gaby, and Opal's friend did or were trying to do (a bounce dive to 300+' on air) sounded like fun. I got the impression that everyone participating in those discussions thought what they did was at the very least ill advised. I thought (and still do) that it was a stupid and reckless thing to do; and I'm pretty sure it's the majority if not the unanimous opinion.

 

[mediumone]

I had a conversation with a diver who was on that trip. What I was told was that it was a trip with clients and once the injured were on board the captain delayed returning in due to the 4 client divers were still in the water unaware of the incident. Gabby was not participating in the 'bounce diving' but became injured while rescuing Opal when her buddy could not or would not go down and get her from 300+ (?) Ft. My point in this is there is really no reliable factual news reporting organizations in most of the world (and getting worse due to the internet) and much of the reporting lacks depth and accuracy. Most news reports on 'dive' fatalities are very lacking in knowlage and facts. Most dive destinations are close communities and people in them are protective and resist speculation.

Like DandyDon, this is the first I've heard of this aspect. In fact I'll take it a step further; I don't think this post is factual.

Where do you get that? I remember several protracted discussions about the incident in here, and I do not remember anyone saying they thought that what Opal, Gaby, and Opal's friend did or were trying to do (a bounce dive to 300+' on air) sounded like fun. I got the impression that everyone participating in those discussions thought what they did was at the very least ill advised. I thought (and still do) that it was a stupid and reckless thing to do; and I'm pretty sure it's the majority if not the unanimous opinion.

Yes, the overwhelming majority.

 

[ggunn]

Wow that is some scary stuff!

Yes, DCS is scary but diving is all about risk management. That's why our training consists largely of learning the ways we can get killed while diving and how to minimize the risks associated with them.

 

[Christi]

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

This thread has been split from another which has been moved to the Accidents and Incidents forum. They would not be allowed under the rules for that forum. Marg, SB Senior Moderator

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I have had private conversations with several operators in Cozumel over the years regarding accidents. It seems there is an unwritten code that you do not talk a lot about them to the public. It is a very tight group with a lot of competition. Outing an unsafe operation is signing your own operation's death warrant.

A good example is the big story a couple years ago when that female instructor died and her DM was paralyzed doing a bounce dive to over 300 feet. Many people, operations wise, it seems knew they did this kind of crap. Yet no one said anything to anyone in a position to stop it.

As a result that one day one man's life was changed forever and his family put in real economic danger. A woman died and her family devastated. Just as bad was the fact that valuable resources were tied up to aid two people doing something stupid and a real accident victim could have also died because those resources would not have been available for them.

I'm sorry Jim - but as a Cozumel dive operator here for 15 years, and being on a friendly basis with many other owners, and with professional respect and courtesy for those I am not personally friends with - I am going to STRONGLY disagree with your claims.

As many others have said - it's not about covering anything up - it's about professional boundaries, and professional ethics - which include not speculating and not making public opinions on incidents where we were not a party, therefore do not have all of the facts. It's about not posting hearsay or gossip. We are professionals, not grade schoolers. And the other fact is that no one OWES the general public details anyway. Only those connected with specific incidents have the facts of what happened, therefore the only ones who should be having any discussion about it or who should be privy to the personal details. Once the facts are known and a conclusion is reached then discussion is appropriate to learn from the incident.

Furthermore, there is no diving police, so just because it was common knowledge that this deceased dive shop owner made bad choices and dove in a reckless manner - just what would you suggest be done? She was a diver, therefore responsible for herself - as was each diver on that dive. The fact that she was an owner doe not exempt her or any of us from that rule. There is no governing authority for those who make bad personal choices - only our Creator has that power - and He spoke. Fellow dive shops are not responsible for nor are we in a position to "stop it" or regulate the choices and decisions of another.

AS Dave said, if we talked about the stupid things we see divers do on a daily basis - we would need to create a dedicated forum for it.

It's funny, because the dive community assumes we (dive shops) are all out to get each other - it's the customers that pit shops against each other - 99% of us don't get into that drama and we respect each other, are friendly with each other and even help each other out in a variety of ways - and yes, we talk! Knowing most of the dive shop owners here - I have to wonder which "several" dive shop owners would make you privy to a conversation like that - I don't even know any who hold the opinion or philosophy you are claiming.

I take strong exception to your claim and would request that as a Moderator, you remove your post which not only calls into question the integrity of every dive shop owner here - but is an inappropriate, irresponsible, and inaccurate/false post.

 

[deepsea21]

mediumone... I was on the dive boat this past december with gopbroek when after some conversation about this incident during a surface interval we learned we were in the presence of one of the "other/friend" divers that were on that boat that day. We could tell it was very difficult for him to discuss it and the hand full of us who were on board during the beach interval sat silent and listened. It was not a dive trip that involved common dive customers. It was a trip with staff and very, very close dive friends. No one planned a bounce to 300'. 300' was the result of nitrogen narc that hit Opal at a much shallower depth that resulted in a descent to la-la land and Gabby had a decision to make... He could watch her descend into oblivion from above or attempt a rescue. He chose to go after her. As it turned out, Opal died and Gabby ended up in a wheelchair. Some would say he should have just watched her disappear but in that instant he chose to go after her. 'nuf said.

 

[Jax]

I'm sorry Jim - <snipped>

I take strong exception to your claim and would request that as a Moderator, you remove your post which not only calls into question the integrity of every dive shop owner here - but is an inappropriate, irresponsible, and inaccurate/false post.

@Christi - Jim is not a Mod - the Mod "Marg" moved Jim's post.

 

[DandyDon]

** MOD POST: ** This thread has been split from another which has been moved to the Accidents and Incidents forum. They would not be allowed under the rules for that forum. Marg, SB Senior Moderator

The above was the Mod post, which this new board erroneously attributed to Jim. The below and following were a separate statement. It's a new board and we're all getting used to it.

I have had private conversations with several operators in Cozumel over the years regarding accidents. It seems there is an unwritten code that you do not talk a lot about them to the public. It is a very tight group with a lot of competition. Outing an unsafe operation is signing your own operation's death warrant.

 

[MMM]

@Christi - Jim is not a Mod - the Mod "Marg" moved Jim's post.

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

Well, no, I didn't move Jim's post. He made it here in the Cozumel forum. I left it where he posted it, but gave it (and a follow-up post) a new title when I moved the balance of the thread to the A&I forum to ensure that the post about the victim didn't turn into the typical train-wreck that ensues after any accident occurs in Cozumel. And included an explanation to that effect. I think the victim is due that degree of respect. Hopefully anyone who spent 5 nanoseconds reading this would figure this out. But maybe, as Don respectfully says, people are struggling with this new software. Marg, SB Senior Moderator

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