Wife against me getting Cave Cert (full)..suggestions?

[CuzzA]

Note to hijack the thread, but most life insurance policies will require that update them on and significant "life changes" (such as taking up cave diving) if you do so after a short period of time following the policy being issued.

I know this for a fact. A friend who died diving in the Florida caves (in a widely discussed accident) fell into this "loophole" and to the best of my knowledge, the insurance company has denied paying the vast majority of the face value. This individual was the proverbial "zero to hero" diver. He went from OW certification to full cave, trimix diver in three years and failed to notify his insurer.

When I learned of this, I spoke to my carrier, and he confirmed that this is almost always the case. The details may vary, but if you do take up something like this, be aware.

My agent used smoking as an example. You take out a policy as a non-smoker. Two weeks later, you suddenly decide to take it up. A week later, you get hit my a bus. The insurer could decline to pay even though the cause of death had nothing to do with smoking. On the other hand, if you took up smoking 10 years later, this wouldn't be the case. On my policy, 60 days is the magic time.

I am in Canada, and this might be different in the US and elsewhere, but I certainly wasn't aware of it.

The situation I mentioned above has resulted in lawsuits as I understand it, but there is every expectation that the company will win. Yes, bastards.

So in the U.S it is pretty simple. Don't lie on your application. Obviously we are all divers here, therefore we should answer yes when asked about our avocation. (Note: That does not necessarily mean we have to pay more just because we scuba dive). Most companies will have you fill out an avocation questionnaire which will seek further details about the activities you engage in or if you intend to engage in the activity in the near future. As long as you don't lie or intentionally try to defraud an insurance company there are generally no issues.

If you lied or knew at the time you applied that you were going to take up an activity they asked about, there is a two year incontestability clause from the date of issue and it restarts if the policy was re-issued because it lapsed for non payment of premium. In other words, the company has a right to look into your death to see if there were any material misrepresentations. If they find there were, it is up to the company as to what they will do. They could flat out deny the claim and refund the premium you paid. They could adjust the death benefit based on how the policy should have been issued in terms of the premium amount or they could pay the claim.

After the two year incontestability clause it does not matter. The death benefit will be paid. No ifs, ands, or buts.

I attached an example so everyone can see the types of questions and how they are worded.

 

[PfcAJ]

I personally feel like it is more dangerous single tank diving in the ocean than cave diving.

Its not. Don't fool yourself.

 

[diver0008]

how did you get wifey to go along ?

Does she really have to?

 

[JonTNY]

@Landlocked123 I setup life insurance policies. Let me know if you need a quote. Problem solved.

No seriously, good advise above. I went through this with spearfishing and sharks. I assured her I'm the big dog in the sea, not the sharks and I increased my life insurance.

Life insurance is the best advise, thank about it and have the conversation. Most wives I know would GLADLY encourage husbands to cave dive on a rebreather without bailout and cave training provided the policy was big enough. In this world proper financial planning is the only measure available to provide for your family in the event of tragedy. People that accept risk well beyond normal levels (avg. day to day things) through activities like cave diving should create a plan that protects their loved ones in the best possible light all things considered. People that don't are selfish, therefore the wives of those silly suds need to demand the insurance policy and up that amount big time.

 

[JonTNY]

Its not. Don't fool yourself.

LOL +1

 

[Kristi@CCDS]

One thing you need to appreciate is that no matter how well trained and skilled you become, your wife will probably continue to worry whenever you go cave diving.

Even true of wives that also cave dive when their husband is off doing 7+ hour dives.....


thanks for sharing your story Ken!

 

[Z Gear]

All joking aside, the life insurance part is good advice. I just signed a 1.5mm policy--Full Cave is on the horizon.

For me I have discussed even solo diving with my wife since one of my dive buddies has moved away and sometimes she is not up diving. I would for SURE have to up my life insurance if I were to pursue this. All jokes aside whether it is solo diving or cave diving it is still going to increase your risk factor. Still just increasing the life insurance is not going to be enough, each scenario is different and some wives or husbands might worry and some might not so much. I guess we all have to roll with what we got and be content.

 

[John C. Ratliff]

Landlocked123,

This question is not about life insurance; it's about love and perceived threats to a wonderful marriage. Don't ignore them, or actually try to change this perception. Instead, compensate and learn to do things together.

I've now been married to Chris for almost 40 years. I gave up being a PJ (USAF Pararescueman) to marry Chris, and gave up almost all the activities for our marriage (no more mountain climbing, rappelling, cliff work, flying helicopters, parachuting, etc.). I did not give up diving, however. I have been diving almost all my life, which is 50+ years now. I dive solo (I learned that in the USAF, where parascuba was always solo), mostly in rivers. Since I have a degree in zoology, I started observing small aquatic life in the rivers of Oregon (mainly the North Umpqua and the Clackamas Rivers). I developed my own BC (the Para-Sea BC, which I patented, still dive, but no one bought, making it perhaps the most expensive BC ever). I collect old diving equipment, and have done research in underwater swimming, developing what I feel is a unique new style of underwater swimming which is much more efficient than previous techniques, and faster too. All this was within the confines of my marriage, which is much more important than my diving.

Because of this activity, I have contributed to salving several problems involving salmon. On the North Umpqua River where a low-head hydro project was killing salmon in the 1980s; the result of over a year of diving on this project was that the low-head hydro project was removed, and the whole project dismantled. Last year, I documented the salmon kills in the Clackamas River, and recently testified to this in a hearing on water removal from this wonderful river for use by several cities, to the probable detriment of the salmon. Here's the video that started that conversation:


Cave diving is not on my agenda, now or ever, though in 1975 I participated in the Warm Mineral Springs Underwater Archaeological Project with Sonny Cockrell and Larry Murphy. I would like eventually to again dive in warm water (I haven't dived tropical water since about 1986), but I hesitate to do so without Chris. Chris and I enjoy hiking together, and walking on long walks.

Chris and I do a lot together; that is what marriage is for, supporting and engaging each other, protecting and promoting each other, supporting her and enjoying our lives together. We have raised two wonderful kids, and they are doing well; these are the important things, not diving.

So my advise is to sit down with your wife, talk to her and find out her fears, and if she is still worried, not to dive caves. Prioritize your marriage over everything else. But still enjoy diving, and perhaps she, like Chris, who recently got into a pool with fins and mask, will one day join you.

SeaRat

 

[lv2dive]

I'm guessing you didn't mean this quite how it came across... I think I got your meaning after I continued to read .

...
Because of this activity, I have contributed to several problems involving salmon....
SeaRat

 

[Dsix36]

Divorce her, you do not need that kind of negativity in your life.