Tec Questions

[sunshower]

I've wanted to go down the tec path for a number of years, actually took a NAUI Intro to Tec class about 10 years ago, and am coming back to the idea of finally continuing down the path. My goals are to become a better diver and to be able to see things that are outside recreational limits - so deeper diving and potentially cave. I assumed I'd do OC but am wondering if things I don't know would make me reconsider and go CC. For example, the cost of gas could make OC less attractive over time. Or the number of bottles/mixes to deal with could become a pain in the neck. I'm sure there are more considerations in determining which of these two paths to go down.

Additionally, I have questions about gear. Like, what all do I need? A Perdix seems like an obvious answer for a computer, but getting into regs, it quickly becomes an alphabet soup - DST, FST, DS4 and that's just one brand! My current gear is a little older now (~10 years) but has been well maintained. I'm using a Dive Right bpw (recwing) and breathing off an Apeks ATX200 with an ATX40.

So, thoughts on OC v CC and gear needs are the basic questions for now. I'm sure there will be more but this is enough to start with. Thanks for your input.

 

[RyanT]

For me, the upfront costs and complexity of a CCR, made me stick with OC. I like the simplicity of OC. I also don't do really deep dives or super long decos, thus gas fills aren't prohibitively expensive. Of course if you plan on doing deep, long dives, then CCR has some clear advantages. Some CCR folks may argue that their set up is also better for shorter dives, but of course YMMV.

For regs, most manufactures make quality ones. Just get a high performance reg from whatever brand you use (I'm not familiar with the Apex models). I wouldn't worry about using a set of well-maintained 10 year old regs.

 

[Germie]

First the regs are normally ok, of course DIN and not yoke. Your backplate and wing are ok too. I know divers who dive with that wing too.
Then a lot of cylinders? You want to do trimix dives or go to cave diving? Cavediving can be done without doing deco. But there will be a moment you want to go further. But most times cavediving can be done relative cheap. Most cavedives can be done on air or nitrox.

There is only 1 thing: there is no cheap technical diving.

A cave course costs money, a trimix course too.
If you start with a twinset and 1 stage you can do cavediving and some technical dives in the 50-55 m region. That is outside the sportdiving limits. If you want to go further, yes, more cylinders needed. And more courses needed of course.

Moving to CCR? A ccr is expensive and the courses too. The runningcosts up to 50m depth are most times more expensive than diving a twinset as you will do the most shallow dives too on a rebreather. BUT: it gives you a lot of freedom. I like it. less filling logistics needed, long bottomtimes possible, etc.

 

[tbone1004]

so your apeks regs are perfectly fine, the first stages haven't changed, and realistically their second stages haven't changed in a meaningful way. You'd be perfectly fine finding a used Apeks first stage of any variety and going forward with technical diving. If you stay with Apeks you'd ideally want DST first stages for back gas, but your FSR is perfectly fine for deco or stage bottle use.

You will never justify CCR over OC for technical diving from a financial standpoint unless you are doing a bunch of deep trimix dives every year. CCR in a cave only saves a third of the gas requirements of OC when kicking, and a sixth of the gas requirements when on a DPV, so it isn't really saving you on the amount of bottles you're carrying. If you want to go CCR because you want to, then do it, but there is no monetary ROI on that equipment.

Your wing is fine for light doubles, your plate obviously is not significantly different than anything made today *dive rite hasn't really changed their plate design since 1984.....You will need a wing with more lift if you are diving with larger tanks, but has nothing to do with the age of the equipment.

Consider sidemount if you want to cave dive

Perdix is the only computer I would recommend for what you say you want to do. I wouldn't look anywhere else

 

[PfcAJ]

Using a rebreather doesn't really change how many tanks you have to bring on a dive. You still need bailout bottom and deco gas.

Additionally, you need to be good at OC tech/ cave diving before moving to a rebreather. When the rb breaks you're an OV diver. Not the time to figure out that you're not good at it.

 

[Doppler]

Let's start with some basics... like where do you see yourself diving in a year or so? How many dives do you currently do a year and how might this change with additional certs? What held you back for years... why the hesitation? Do you live near challenging dive sites? Do you have the time and money to travel for diving?

 

[boulderjohn]

Let's start with some basics... like where do you see yourself diving in a year or so? How many dives do you currently do a year and how might this change with additional certs? What held you back for years... why the hesitation? Do you live near challenging dive sites? Do you have the time and money to travel for diving?

Steve is asking a lot of good questions here. You should have good answers before you go much further. I would absolutely not go out and start buying gear as a first step.

If you really decide you want to go the Tech route, start thinking of where and how you will be trained. It can make a real difference in the equipment you ultimately buy. For example, you talk about going out and getting a Perdix. You may find out when you start instructing that your instructor does not want you using any computer of any kind for your initial training or even forever. There are other differences in training philosophies between both agencies and individual instructors that will have a severe impact upon your diving.

When I started my own tech training, my tech instructor flat out said that although we were going to be getting certified under agency ABC, he would actually be training under the standards and procedures of agency DEF. Frustrated after a while, I contacted the leadership of agency ABC and discovered that they didn't care about that one bit--as long as the standards of agency ABC were covered somewhere in the process, the instructor was free to follow the DEF curriculum completely. When I later took classes from a different instructor from agency ABC, I entered an entirely different world of technical diving philosophy--and that very much included equipment choices. I have now had formal technical training from 5 different technical instruction agencies and an equal number of instructors, and I have watched several others at work. The varied philosophies and approaches made my experience quite like being the ball in a pinball machine. As a tech instructor now, I teach the ones that make sense to me and don't teach the ones that don't.

I suggest you make a decision about both the agency and the instructor you will train with, and don't make that decision lightly. Make sure that the agency has a path to your final destination that makes sense. (That issue was the reason I abandoned an agency with which I was training--the instructional path ahead of me looked to be absurd.) Make sure you find an instructor that you trust and want to work with, someone who can guide you through the process for at least the first few classes. Once you have decided that you really do want to get into technical diving, and once you have decided you have picked the right agency and instructor, then ask that instructor for guidance in the questions you asked above.

 

[RyanT]

Make sure you find an instructor that you trust and want to work with, someone who can guide you through the process for at least the first few classes. Once you have decided that you really do want to get into technical diving, and once you have decided you have picked the right agency and instructor, then ask that instructor for guidance in the questions you asked above.

Indeed, good advice! Much more so than recreational training, having a good tech instructor who you trust and meshes with your style is important.

 

[rjack321]

While I agree that a solid foundation in OC decompression is really helpful for CCR divers, the ROI question is highly dependent on location. If you're outside the continental US and Canada the price of helium is orders of magnitude greater. So where are you located and doing most of your diving?

 

[sunshower]

Let's start with some basics... like where do you see yourself diving in a year or so? How many dives do you currently do a year and how might this change with additional certs? What held you back for years... why the hesitation? Do you live near challenging dive sites? Do you have the time and money to travel for diving?

Good questions. I'm currently a DM and want to complete Tec training and then perhaps go on to become an instructor. I don't know how many Tec dives I'd do in a year, will figure that out after I'm certified. However, I live near DC so I don't have the same opportunity as those in NC or south FL, but I'll be sure to get there, won't not use the new certifications. I'm not loaded but do have the resources.

As for hesitation many years ago, I'm not sure. I ended up doing a lot of recreational diving, travelled to many places and was having fun with that. Now I want to come back to it, want to continue progressing as a diver. Who knows, maybe one day I'll go full retard and start some kind of dive business!