Backup Computer Recommendations?

[lermontov]

OTOH, $700 for an Arai when you could spend $180 on a Bell is really a waste of money (from a 20-year Arai wearer). There is a (relatively low) point where, after that, more money does not actually get you anything but "prestige".

If a $200 computer does everything you want or need it to and it never gives you any reason to need to call for service or support, then an $850 computer really does not give you anything for the extra money.

fair comment if your comparing apples with apples as long as you know the specs are the same -i was implying that if you had an option to buy a key component (like regs or Dc or helmet) for say $300 and theres a better option for $400 id get the $400 one - then again we could alway bring up the MAC PC debate

 

[stuartv]

fair comment if your comparing apples with apples as long as you know the specs are the same -i was implying that if you had an option to buy a key component (like regs or Dc or helmet) for say $300 and theres a better option for $400 id get the $400 one - then again we could alway bring up the MAC PC debate

The specs don't have to be the same for my comment to still apply. An $850 Petrel has better specs. More gases, Gradient Factors, and Trimix support. But, if you have no use for any of that, then the better specs are irrelevant. The screen is better. But, if you can read the screen on your $200 computer just fine in all the conditions you're going to dive in, then again, the better "spec" is irrelevant. Spending $850 instead of $200 is not getting you anything but "prestige".

Some people know that they are only going to ever do recreational sport dives, in reasonably warm water, with reasonably good (or better) viz. For them, $850 on a computer (that doesn't do AI) is a complete waste of money. I have a friend who loves to dive. She travels often, just to go dive. But, she has no interest in water cooler than 80 degrees or visibility less than 20'. And no interest in going deeper than 130'. She already has over 100 dives and is aiming to do another 100 just this year. Even so, a Petrel or Perdix would be a waste of money for her. She would be much better off to spend half that much money and have 2 computers, so she'd have a backup.

 

[KevinNM]

The reason I bought a shearwater was so I could read the display easily and be confident that I'm reading the data that is there. I don't have to fumble around for the backlight button or hit it with a light when lighting isn't great.

There really are not too many computers out there with a better and easier to read display.

 

[stuartv]

The reason I bought a shearwater was so I could read the display easily and be confident that I'm reading the data that is there. I don't have to fumble around for the backlight button or hit it with a light when lighting isn't great.

There really are not too many computers out there with a better and easier to read display.

I'd take your last sentence and ante one higher. I don't think there is any computer with a better and easier to read display. Some are as good, but I don't think any are better.

But, I've seen it posted numerous times "I could read my buddy's Petrel from 20' away." And that sure does sound like overkill, to me. Unless you have 20 foot long arms, of course. I did a night dive on the Sea Tiger (Hawaii). Depth was just over 100'. We did some swim throughs. I.e. it was pitch black. My Atom didn't require any fumbling to hit the backlight button and I could read it just fine. As I was saying before, a Rec-only diver sticking to warm water with 20+ foot viz doesn't have anything like the needs of many other divers when it comes to computers. Spending more in order to get more than you'll even use, much less need, is just a waste of money.

 

[Lorenzoid]

The reason I bought a shearwater was so I could read the display easily and be confident that I'm reading the data that is there. I don't have to fumble around for the backlight button or hit it with a light when lighting isn't great.

There really are not too many computers out there with a better and easier to read display.

The display along with the rest of the user interface--the buttons, the prompts, the menu structure, etc. And the user-replaceable AA battery. It's just so darn easy to use in all respects. Zero aggravation.

 

[stuartv]

The display along with the rest of the user interface--the buttons, the prompts, the menu structure, etc. And the user-replaceable AA battery. It's just so darn easy to use in all respects. Zero aggravation.

I do not agree on the buttons. I think the H3 buttons are not just "as good", but actually easier. Just as one example. I bet the OSTC3 buttons are easier, too. The buttons were one thing I did not like about my Petrel. Especially with gloves on, I often found myself trying to press a button on my Petrel and failing because I was a little off to the side of the button and couldn't actually feel the little raised lip around the button to tell where it really was.

I can easily tell by feel exactly where my H3 buttons are. And if you look at a picture of an OSTC3, I bet you would agree that those would also be much easier to identify and use with gloves on, in low visibility.

In fact, after reading the OSTC3 manual a couple of days ago, I think it is an overall more desirable computer than a Perdix. Smaller in every dimension, including much less thick. Same size screen (technically, 0.2" smaller diagonal). Same resolution screen. Also uses any kind of AA battery. Open source OS. Buttons are easier to find/use. And it's only USD$700. It's a dang shame they don't sell them directly into the U.S.. But, I have been seriously considering ordering one and having it shipped to a buddy in England or Canada and then letting them ship it on over to me.

And, obviously I think the H3 is more desirable than a SW as I had both at the same time and sold the Petrel 2.

That said, a buddy told me yesterday that his "guy" at his local shop told him that Shearwater had contacted that shop to collect market data from them on the possibility of coming out with AI. If that happens and ScubaPro doesn't give me some option for AI on my H3, I may end up as a Shearwater owner again after all.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Fair enough--I don't use gloves, and I haven't taken a close look at the H3 or OSTC3. If they are USD 700, then that's in the same ballpark as my Petrel 2 was when I bought it. I never took the position that Shearwaters are better in every way than any other computer. All I know is that the piezo buttons are WAY better than the fiddly little pushbuttons of computers I have used before, and the menus seem really well thought out. I do think a case can be made for the whole of what one gets being worth what Shearwater charges, even to a rec-only diver. But by all means, a diver should look into other manufacturers' offerings in this class.

 

[stuartv]

I do think a case can be made for the whole of what one gets being worth what Shearwater charges, even to a rec-only diver. But by all means, a diver should look into other manufacturers' offerings in this class.

I view it kind of like this: You can pay $20,000 for a Honda. Or you could pay $85,000 for a Mercedes or BMW. Let's just say that both are pretty darn unlikely to break. If they don't break, then what kind of customer service they offer is moot. If they do break (after the warranty period is over), maybe the Honda dealer treats you like a common peasant and totally nickel and dimes you to death on the service charges, and the M-B dealer totally kisses your butt AND the service department takes care of you really well on the charges.

You can argue that the M-B or BMW or whatever is "worth" what the OEM charges. In reality, you CAN make a really good case that those cars are worth what they go for.

But, that still doesn't mean that the average schmoe who's going to drive back and forth to work and the grocery store and haul the kids to soccer practice is getting remotely close to his money's worth by buying the M-B or BMW.

The Honda could totally blow up and not be worth fixing. You can buy a new one and still have spent half what the other car would have cost.

It's not a perfect analogy, I know. It's just trying to illustrate the point that being "worth it" really depends on what you're going to do with it. I met a "diver" the other day. She's been certified for 5 years and done 13 dives in all that time. Do you really think that if she buys a computer she should even consider for one second spending $850 for a SW? (presuming that she isn't set on making some huge changes to the way she's been approaching her diving)

 

[Lorenzoid]

I admittedly haven't done any comparison shopping in a long time. Are there now $200 computers with the kind of usability features we have been talking about, such as large and bright display, simple buttons, menu structure, and user-replaceable battery? If so, I would completely agree that people who are buying Shearwaters mainly for those features ought to take a look at the $200 alternatives. When I bought my Petrel a couple of years ago, I wasn't aware of anything like that. To me, those features were worth a premium of hundreds of dollars. I was sick and tired of my small screen and confusing user interface. Yeah, using the Shearwater on easy dives feels like what I might guess it feels like to drive an $85,000 Mercedes to the grocery store after years of driving the Honda. So it was worth it to me. If your diver friend is satisfied with the features of the computer she has been using, then no, she wouldn't appreciate the Shearwater enough to make it worth it to her.

For a newly certified diver who has hardly used any computer before, I might say to take a look at the Shearwater along with various other options in all price ranges. If the newly certified diver doesn't immediately appreciate its features, then she might as well start with a basic, inexpensive computer. She can always sell it on ebay if she grows to dislike it.

 

[kcprofessor]

It's amazing the twists and turns these threads take, but it's all interesting. Just a few comments on more than a few of the recent posts.
First, my dive buddy and I plan all our deep dives and have the plan on a slate if everything turns to crap. Gauge mode is fine for the backup if you are doing a single day's diving. The reason for a backup is to enable later repetitive dives, which is why the Suunto is useless since it can't be brought out of gauge mode for 48 hours.
Second, at some point the backup may become the primary. At that point I have to hope that the scuba gods don't screw me over twice in the same trip. I can haul out the Suunto at that point and use it in gauge mode.
So now to the question of whether another Shearwater, Sea Bear or whatever is worth it. If price is no object, I'd go for another Shearwater because I am familiar with it and there is no learning curve. But price is always an object and I'm not going to spend over $800 on a backup. The list gets pretty short when you start requiring a non-proprietary algorithm and multi-gas capability. This also applies to all of the gadgets we buy. It all comes down to the biggest bang for the buck. The truth is that no new diver really knows where they will end up in their diving career. I tend to agree with Lorenzoid about new divers, buy a good solid nitrox dive computer and use it until it no longer fits you. The only certainty is that by the time that happens, the high dollar cutting edge computers will be mainstream and something new and fabulous will be out there.