Tec Questions

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...I have questions about gear. Like, what all do I need?

1. Decide you long-term goals. That allows you to 'begin with the end in mind'.
2. Break that long-term goal into achievable stages/phases of development
3. Research the instructor/s that will best enable you to achieve those stages/phases.
4, Training and experience must develop in tandem - factor in periods of diving-only to ingrain new skills before progressing with training.

I'd suggest initially focusing on training/development rather than gear. Mindset, skills and effective procedures are what makes a competent technical diver, not the kit they wear. Invest in superior training and the kit issues will resolve themselves thereafter.

DECIDING LONG-TERM GOALS

Deciding your long term goals can be quite a challenge at the outset. The most important factor is that they should be realistically achievable. That means you must confidently predict enough opportunity to do that diving with sufficient frequency to ensure continued proficiency.

Being a 'CCR trimix cave diver', or whatever your goal may be, isn't about having a plastic card in your wallet. It's about the reliable skills and experience you maintain through repeated and continual diving at that level, in that environment.

It's important to recognize the profound skill fade that occurs when you don't dive at a given level for extended periods of time. There's little point in gaining qualifications that you won't be able to utilize frequently enough to maintain competency in.

Your long term goals must reflect a sensible, common-sense acceptance of the investment you can make to that order of diving. Investment in money, time and hard-work.... over a duration of years and decades.

DECIDING PHASES


One possible strategy for development would be to separate the phases of fundamentals, decompression and overhead environment:

A. Initial training for technical diving must stress the development of fundamental skills; buoyancy control, trim, situational awareness (gas, time, depth, location, team), precision planning, ascent protocols must be developed to a high standard. That standard should not perish when subjected to new skills being added, or other task loading being presented. Make your mistakes....and do your learning... in no-stop scenarios before you decrease the survive-ability of your dives by adding decompression.

In short - you need to be a highly competent diver, before you can become a technical diver.

B. Subsequent training in basic decompression procedures builds on those fundamentals. This is basically carrying extra deco cylinders, gas switches, ascent/stop discipline and comprehensive risk awareness/mitigation strategies. Again, this must go beyond 'being learned', but must be ingrained so that it becomes an autonomous and instinctive function; something that occurs reliably and consistently regardless of other stressors and distractions. Make your mistakes....and do your learning... in basic decompression scenarios before you decrease the survive-ability of your dives by adding overhead environment hazards.

In short - you need to be a highly competent technical diver, before you become an overhead environment technical diver.

C. Finally, you can add overhead environment specific training; building on your fundamentals and decompression training to conduct dives with additional hazards/demands and the skills necessary to mitigate those. By this time your fundamentals should be unshakeable and your ability to plan and conduct decompression should be second-nature. Everything you now do in the overhead environment will not perish or degrade the critical competencies previously attained.


The big decision is whether you would gain that competency on open circuit or CCR. Whatever the option, you need to establish effective equipment competency as the initial stage, then build your fundamentals in that configuration, then add the deco and finally apply that in overhead environments.

Open circuit is obviously what you're most competent with initially, This gives the most direct route to gaining fundamental, deco and overhead environment progression. You might choose to do your training in open circuit for that reason alone... a faster initial development.

You could then switch to CCR at a later stage... when you needed the capabilities offered by CCR for extended duration and/or very deep technical dives. However, upon cross-over to CCR, you would have to take a significant step-back in diving...going 'back to the start' and building progression at each stage all over again. This requires significant patience and discipline.... but really, so does all effective technical diving development.

There are also other ways that you could choose to progress. Instead of a single path, linear, development; you could attempt

- If you had ready access to dual-environments (Open Water and Overhead Environment) you could progress simultaneously on two tracks; diving open water to develop decompression skills whilst also developing cave skills without decompression. Eventually, when both were profoundly competent, you could merge those development paths and incorporate decompression with your cave dives. The challenge with dual-path development is that individual must exert responsibility to balance their progress in each aspect and allow no 'chinks in their armor' to exist.

- The same is true if considering a dual, or triple, path of development with OC decompression, OC overhead environment and CCR training. You could do all three simultaneously then merge them together at a suitable time. The important thing, of course, is that each aspect remains equally strong and develops at an equal pace.

Attempting dual, or triple, paths isn't necessarily a quicker route to competency. This is because you are diluting your experience in each aspect. If your opportunities for diving are limited, then you are dividing your potential in-water development across those different paths of development. Very few divers have unlimited opportunity to develop their skills. Even full-time dive professionals get relatively little time to push their own comfort zones, extend skill boundaries and undergo dives which challenge their experience. Too much time between dives of a specific aspect can lead to skill fade. Likewise, the skill demands of certain aspects, for instance buoyancy in open versus closed circuit, may be counter-intuitive and thus, slow progression in both. Diluting your training by attempting too many simultaneous strands of progression can lead to very slow or ineffective skill/experience acquisition.

DECIDING INSTRUCTOR/S

Firstly, a large part of the investment in technical diving is in training. Be honest about your budget and dedication to training. You should aim to get the best training that you can afford; and this includes travelling to gain access to true expertise. Be aware that the technical diving training market is increasingly saturated by 'less than expert' instructors.

One of your first decisions is whether you will seek a single, or multiple instructors along the stages of your development. There are pros and cons to either strategy.

Having a single instructor allows a higher degree of mentor relationship; giving the benefit of more fluid and progressive development across multiple courses. A mentoring type of program allows better student-instructor interface; and promotes a singular philosophical approach to technical diving. The drawback is that few instructors possess exceptional expertise across multiple aspects of technical, CCR and overhead environment diving.

Generalists are good at everything. Specialists are exceptional in their selected form of diving.

Choosing to train with multiple instructors allows you to pick true specialists in varied aspects of diving. These are the true 'gurus' of specific disciplines. You train with them, then go home and apply that knowledge during self-development periods of experience acquisition.

The advantages of training with a world-class specialist are obvious. The drawbacks are that you'll often have to travel to them and your student-instructor time will consequently be limited. Also, depending on your psychology, it can be either a pro or a con to have exposure to multiple.... and sometimes contradictory.... philosophical approaches to technical diving. Some divers benefit from consistency, others prefer to be subjected to different views and then decide their own philosophy.

In short, do you want a 'Mr Miyagi' type mentor..... or do you wish to be a pilgrim to the gurus?

....thoughts on OC v CC...

CCR is a big investment. Not only in money, but also in time and effort. I'd suggest that you would need a high degree of certainty that you can commit to CCR in all facets, if you want to dive CCR from the outset for your technical development. You'd need to become a very good CCR diver before attempting to become a CCR technical diver or CCR overhead environment diver. You'd then need to be great at that level.... before becoming a CCR technical overhead environment diver.

Do you have the initial patience for that?
 
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I agree with DevonDiver as it is most times true.
BUT:You can start with overhead courses before doing other technical courses. But you have to be a good and competent diver. My first technical course was a full cave course. So there is no need to be a full trimix diver in open water before transitioning to cave. BUT: if you have at least an adv. nitrox cert, cave diving will be a little bit easier as you already know some bouancy skills and finkicks. Most important: Know your techgear. Don't start a cave course without experience in open water with bp/wing/twinset or sidemount. I prefer divers with at least adv. nitrox in cavecourses too. But some can do without. It depends on the diver.
So if cave is your dream, follow your dream. But you have to be a good competent diver before starting. And the equipment must be normal for you. Talk to an instructor and explain. Make if possible a dive in ow with your instructor. Then the instructor knows how you dive and you know if the instructors style of teaching is your way to learn.

Then CCR, some divers will learn ccr diving easy. If you are such a natural, you still have to start over again, but your oc level can be continoed on ccr within a few months. Of course depending on amount of dives you make every week and how easy you will learn ccr bouyancy. Practise a lot and make ccr your primary equipment for at least some period of time till you are confident with it. Dive 3-5 times a week and you will faster get your old oc level back than diving just 2 times a month. So if you are motivated, go and dive and dive and dive. If you are not that natural, it will take more time. Then you have to be more patient, but it is still dive, dive and dive to learn.
 
RE: CCRs. They can be fun to dive in their own right. But it's almost impossible to break even on the costs, so don't go down that route for a "savings" unless you live someplace like Truk where helium is priced in dollars per liter. And when you have to bail out (which will happen eventually) do you really want to be at 200+ft nervously doing an open circuit exit or ascent and only having done a few before? You need the base of OC experience to draw upon when everything is going sideways, don't skimp on that.
 
The advantages of training with a world-class specialist are obvious. The drawbacks are that you'll often have to travel to them and your student-instructor time will consequently be limited.
Sometimes. Sometimes the "big names" are well known as divers but crappy instructors. Very few agencies provide rigorous oversight and quality control of their instructors once they start issuing cards. In this regard, GUE is head and shoulders above the other agencies in not allowing substandard instructors to persist in their ranks. If the OP decides to back up and redo some of their preliminary training, GUE fundamentals is a great place to start.
 
Sometimes. Sometimes the "big names" are well known as divers but crappy instructors.

True. I should clarify that the context of "world class specialist" is that of instruction, not necessarily expeditionary diving, or the ability to self-promote.

To be a good instructor, you need true expertise and experience at (ideally beyond) the level you are teaching. That is what you teach.

You also need to be a capable educator, coach and mentor. Mindset, motivation and commitment are also critical in the mix of a good instructor. That is how you teach.

Very few agencies provide rigorous oversight and quality control of their instructors once they start issuing cards.

Once they start?? Tech instructor cards are handed out like candy at a kids party nowadays.

In this regard, GUE is head and shoulders above the other agencies in not allowing substandard instructors to persist in their ranks.

That does touch upon a really critical factor. Tech instructors should be active technical divers. There is an army of tech instructors out there who only tech dive on rare occasions... usually those rare occasions is when they get a tech student. I know of tech instructor trainers who have less than 100 technical dives in total. I know tech instructors who 'qualified' as tech divers and instructors all within a couple of weeks.... It's ludicrous.

It's more than just having a 'robust' QA process A process that punishes deviations below standards - but also looks at the quality of output from an instructor's training courses. But also visibility of the instructors and what they are doing to maintain and develop their personal expertise and experience.
 
That does touch upon a really critical factor. Tech instructors should be active technical divers. There is an army of tech instructors out there who only tech dive on rare occasions... usually those rare occasions is when they get a tech student. I know of tech instructor trainers who have less than 100 technical dives in total. I know tech instructors who 'qualified' as tech divers and instructors all within a couple of weeks.... It's ludicrous.

It's more than just having a 'robust' QA process A process that punishes deviations below standards - but also looks at the quality of output from an instructor's training courses. But also visibility of the instructors and what they are doing to maintain and develop their personal expertise and experience.

Andy, I may disagree with you about sidemount for everyone and sidemount everywhere, but I think I love you.
 
This thread is really delivering, lots of good advice. Thanks to everyone for taking time to share your thoughts and experiences. Here's a quick summary of my takeaways and a few follow up questions.

OC v CC:

> hard to justify CC financially, do it if it's the preferred format, but be ready to become an OC diver if it fails (i.e. probably should start OC and gain that competency before going CC)

Gear:

> Age of my gear isn't problematic; sounds like quality and condition are more important
> consider a wing with more lift if using heavier doubles
> Perdix is a good option, some might say the best

Other:

> Carefully consider the instructor/agency decision; find an instructor that I trust a lot and get along with
> Consider using one instructor v multiple in various specialties; be ready to travel

> Define goals and develop a plan to achieve; break into stages

> Stay active, avoid skill fade

Follow Up Questions:

> Thoughts on instructors and agencies? I'm inclined to start OC and cross over to CC at some point later. I'm also more inclined to focus on deep/wreck and maybe add cave down the road. I'm probably most interested in training with someone between DC and Key West but would consider others beyond that area depending on the situation. I will get up to see Jonathan Edwardsen at Submerged but who else should I consider? Lots of experience and being currently active are important to me. I like the idea of working with specialists but a great generalist at the center could be really good; kind of a core/satellite approach.
> Edited to add I'll be in the Keys/Palm Beach with my kids in late August; could probably stop in and talk with guys while there.​

> Seems like choice of agency is second to instructor but I welcome thoughts on agencies too.

> Regarding doubles, is there a size/metal combo that's most versatile or are different combos needed to accommodate different dives? Aluminum 80s, steel 100s, 120s...? Different inspection standards than rec?

> Maybe a dumb question, and not so important right now but I'm curious - dry suits are probably very common but do guys dive wet in warmer locations (say Cayman) or do you tend to stick with dry to maintain consistency in your configuration?

> Any good fb groups for this subject or used gear? (not a knock on this forum, I love it, just looking to supplement)
 
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As many have stated I wouldn't start with what gear you plan to end with because at this point you don't know. When I started tech diving it was only open circuit and CCR didn't make any sense at all. Now because of the types of dives I do unless I am teaching I am on a rebreather. Having said that it is based on the diving I am doing it is not the right path for every one. Dive gear are tools I have a rebreather, a side mount set up, and a back mount set up each one has a purpose and a place. As you go down that rabbit hole and you find the dives you enjoy and the places you like to go that will shape the types of gear you buy. The best place to start is find a good instructor and do researcher on different kinds of diving and how they do it. If you want to be a cave diver look at how and why the big cave divers do their dives and their set up. As stated there is no cheap way into tech diving it is going to cost money and never gets any cheaper. It is very much worth it in the end and you will see incredible things and meet some amazing folks. Find a good instructor find out what gear they recommend to start with then let you kit grow and evolve with your experience and needs.
 
I'm currently doing some additional training with Jon Belisario at Olympus Diver Center in Morehead City, NC. It's about a 6(ish) hour drive from DC, so doable for an extended weekend type trip. I've had lots of instructors over the years and Jon is one of the best I've seen. He's really competent but laid back, and is a naturally gifted teacher. Highly recommended!
 
I'm currently doing some additional training with Jon Belisario at Olympus Diver Center in Morehead City, NC. It's about a 6(ish) hour drive from DC, so doable for an extended weekend type trip. I've had lots of instructors over the years and Jon is one of the best I've seen. He's really competent but laid back, and is a naturally gifted teacher. Highly recommended!

Thanks, I've used that shop a few times over the years.
 
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