PADI Rescue Diver Curriculum Question

[Jim Lapenta]

Looking up at a contrail is not the same as a direct violation of clear standards prohibiting shutting off a student's air. That could easily result in someone being seriously injured or worse. I am known for teaching above standards within the standards of the agencies I certify divers through. One agency actually requires me to add material and allows me to test on that as a condition of certification in our local conditions. There are some things however that fall within the realm of unnecessarily dangerous. Those things don't get done in open water. Air depletion in the pool is risky IMO. You have to be in direct contact and ready to respond instantly. In open water it's just nuts to do.

 

[boulderjohn]

If your student will panic and die in an OOA situation, wouldn't you rather it happen while you're there to intervene?

If a student dies while I am attempting to intervene, I don't see it as any better than if the former student were to die without me. I believe it is my job to teach the student to handle the situation properly without putting the student at undue risk. Any benefit to creating that actual risk of death within a training scenario is marginal at best.

Regarding your recommendation, as an ex school teacher and in general, I give this a nay. I think some of the best teachers take opportunities to go above and beyond their prescribed curriculum. Was glad to be able to retire a few years ago before I would have had to strictly adhere to common core standards. If I had my class doing a lab activity on photosynthesis and leaf respiration (let's say in my prescribed curriculum) in which we went outside and bagged some leaves in a wooded area, should I get reprimanded because I found a teaching moment by looking up and seeing a jet con trail that led to a discussion in weather predictors and folklore (not in my curriculum?)

I've always looked at standards as a minimum of what should be taught, although today, teachers better follow the curricula and standards in their school or else get suspended, be forced to teach a different course, or be supervised for weeks on end!!!!!! Just kidding.

Having said that, a life threatening event does require some intervention. I would go with a discussion with the course director about how they cover their material for the course.

Deviating from standards does not necessarily mean you are doing better than those requirements. As a former teacher and school administrator, I could fill a book with examples of teachers who taught outside of the standards for a course and did a grave disservice to their students. They were mostly doing what they liked to do, and what they liked to do was not providing an iota of benefit for student learning. In the history of NAUI mentioned above, Tillman said that in discussing the instructors who were turning the air off, etc., they decided that the instructors who were doing it were having fun with it, suggesting that the main reason for doing it was the fun the instructor was having rather than any supposed benefit to the student.

 

[GameChanger]

I seem to recall this during early (1970's) NASDS OW Certification training in San Diego. "Harassment" by the instructors was done during the ocean dives and was part of the course. We were told ahead of time it would occur so we were sort of anticipating whatever they did. (turning off air, pulling regulator, removing mask, etc.)

 

[TMHeimer]

I agree with Jim and the others completely. Nuts. Though maybe not very relevant, in over 600 dives (though many solo), including 4 years active DM, I haven't yet seen myself or anyone being out of air. Yes, I know it happens all too often, but considering my experiences, it's just crazy to purposely create that situation--and unexpectedly-- in open water. Even for a Rescue Course. Is there anything worse than unexpected OOA to create panic?

 

[Diving Dubai]

The only "stress" tests I got on rescue was the Instructor or DM taking off my mask unexpectedly (giving it back so I could recover and clear) and removing my reg. Neither which concerned me, and neither induced stress because I've done both many times while practicing or changing tanks. There were some who flapped and got pretty stressed with the whole thing even in the pool. The sad thing is they thought themselves competent divers

 

[TMHeimer]

The only "stress" tests I got on rescue was the Instructor or DM taking off my mask unexpectedly (giving it back so I could recover and clear) and removing my reg. Neither which concerned me, and neither induced stress because I've done both many times while practicing or changing tanks. There were some who flapped and got pretty stressed with the whole thing even in the pool. The sad thing is they thought themselves competent divers

Yeah, not the same as turning air off. That's OW course stuff. I don't know if you're "allowed" to do that stuff, but if you're taking Rescue there should be no stressing over it.

 

[Diving Dubai]

Yeah, not the same as turning air off. That's OW course stuff. I don't know if you're "allowed" to do that stuff, but if you're taking Rescue there should be no stressing over it.

Not sure if a DM nor instructor would get to turn my air off, I'd feel it, and a fin in the face often offends! Agree Turning air off under CONTROLLED and informed circumstances in a pool for OW is okay - not for anything else though.

I think for RD and upwards, you need to get stressed and task loaded because that's what happens under water. If you're going to get in a mess just putting a DSMB up or something similar for a task load, then you'll be no good in a real rescue.