Palau -it's over??

[Eric Sedletzky]

That is very sad about Palau
I didn't realize or know a lot about Chinese economics and/or class dynamics. On a side note, that explains a lot about what's going on in San Francisco these days.

 

[runsongas]

That is very sad about Palau
I didn't realize or know a lot about Chinese economics and/or class dynamics. On a side note, that explains a lot about what's going on in San Francisco these days.

Huh? the city isn't overrun with chinese tourists. its got housing and affordability issues because there is too much demand and not enough supply. the nimbys don't help either.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

It's not overrun with Chinese tourists, it's overrun with Chinese foreign investment buying up everytbing is sight and renting mainly only to their own. That's a big reason housing is short because of rental hoarding. It's a penninsula problem overall. There homes in Palo Alto worth millions and are vacant but are maintained perfectly by gardners and maintenance crews. Those were the ones that had perfect lawns and manicured gardens during a severe drought, they don't care. Many of the property owners don't even live here, they just get the property to have it and will pay any amount. They are not allowed to own property in China so they are buying up everything they can here, including large plots of land in many other states.

 

[runsongas]

It's not overrun with Chinese tourists, it's overrun with Chinese foreign investment buying up everytbing is sight and renting mainly only to their own. That's a big reason housing is short because of rental hoarding. It's a penninsula problem overall. There homes in Palo Alto worth millions and are vacant but are maintained perfectly by gardners and maintenance crews. Those were the ones that had perfect lawns and manicured gardens during a severe drought, they don't care. Many of the property owners don't even live here, they just get the property to have it and will pay any amount. They are not allowed to own property in China so they are buying up everything they can here, including large plots of land in many other states.

i haven't seen any evidence of that being the main problem beyond yellow peril anecdotes. SF needs to build more high density housing period. 3 floors doesn't cut it. the city has always had an issue building enough housing because of the affordable housing requirements, rent control, and difficulty in being a landlord.

i just think the chi coms are being scapegoated when the real culprits are a combination of backwards legislation and entrenched legacy opposition.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

There's no room.
There's no more room for cars, no more room for people. How many people does there need to be packed into an area that can't geographically expand?
The freeways are maxed out, BART is maxed out, the bridges are maxed out, so their answer is to run more ferries which you will see expand in the near future. There are two questions, who is living in the city if a lot of the workers can't afford to live there and have to commute from as far as Sac and north as far as Cloverdale?
And why doesn't anybody just move their industry to where their people are?
We have tons of room up here in Santa Rosa.

Sorry about hijacking the thread. Mods please feel free to move or delete.

 

[diver0008]

It's not overrun with Chinese tourists, it's overrun with Chinese foreign investment buying up everytbing is sight and renting mainly only to their own. That's a big reason housing is short because of rental hoarding. It's a penninsula problem overall. There homes in Palo Alto worth millions and are vacant but are maintained perfectly by gardners and maintenance crews. Those were the ones that had perfect lawns and manicured gardens during a severe drought, they don't care. Many of the property owners don't even live here, they just get the property to have it and will pay any amount. They are not allowed to own property in China so they are buying up everything they can here, including large plots of land in many other states.

This is happening in Vancouver pretty much exactly as you describe.

 

[runsongas]

There's no room.
There's no more room for cars, no more room for people. How many people does there need to be packed into an area that can't geographically expand?
The freeways are maxed out, BART is maxed out, the bridges are maxed out, so their answer is to run more ferries which you will see expand in the near future. There are two questions, who is living in the city if a lot of the workers can't afford to live there and have to commute from as far as Sac and north as far as Cloverdale?
And why doesn't anybody just move their industry to where their people are?
We have tons of room up here in Santa Rosa.

1) you're right, it is a waste of space to have cars and parking spaces in the city. But SF isn't dense at all when compared to Tokyo, HK, NYC, etc. there is no room because the space is used very inefficiently and there isn't enough housing being built
2) BART/Muni is FUBAR because of the bureaucracy they have. Got stuck with a proprietary grade on their lines, so they can't expand easily. If the public transit was better, the bridges wouldn't be so maxed out and there would be less cars taking up space
3) People who already bought a place cheap before property values went through the roof and renters. The renters have gotten more middle class as rents went up. People move to the bay for jobs all the time, which keeps demand high.
4) people live in SF because they want to be in SF. concerts, nightlife, etc. you're not going to suddenly convince people to not want to live in the city, so the only solution is more housing which then lowers prices.

 

[diver0008]

the only solution is more housing which then lowers prices.

That basic economic law does not apply to real estate in a hot free market. If the place continues to be popular and attractive, the prices will never go down. If the state decides to build massive residential projects and the required supporting infrastructure, it will fundamentally change the character and quality of life in the city. Taxes will go up, quality of life will go down, and people with financial mobility will leave (suburban sprawl). You think your bridges and highways are bad now? You may get your lower prices, but would the social costs really be worth it? The Chinese would still buy and hold the good stuff until the law says they cannot. Growth-model economics invariably end in dark places. In my opinion, the solution is not to increase supply, but to reduce demand.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Sorry about hijacking the thread. Mods please feel free to move or delete.

Please take it to the Pub, gentlemen.

 

[runsongas]

That basic economic law does not apply to real estate in a hot free market. If the place continues to be popular and attractive, the prices will never go down. If the state decides to build massive residential projects and the required supporting infrastructure, it will fundamentally change the character and quality of life in the city. Taxes will go up, quality of life will go down, and people with financial mobility will leave (suburban sprawl). You think your bridges and highways are bad now? You may get your lower prices, but would the social costs really be worth it? The Chinese would still buy and hold the good stuff until the law says they cannot. Growth-model economics invariably end in dark places. In my opinion, the solution is not to increase supply, but to reduce demand.

That is exactly the problem though. You aren't going to reduce demand because the majority of it is not from some Chinese boogeyman. It is from a crowd of younger professionals that want to live in the city. So if you don't want the working class all ending up in Fresno, the only way to get prices down is to increase supply.