Cave Certs Expiration

[Imbodie]

Oh I quite agree ALL AGENCIES are putting out a lot of crap divers. Don't misunderstand me. I'm only addressing your feelings that they need to cram more training into a shorter period because students are breaking standards and are getting bored.

It IS NOT the agencies... it IS the instructors... I had two awesome instructors... if I couldn't have done the skills I wouldn't have gotten the card.... I'm glad someone is realizing that people ARE violating their standards and doing things like 3rds when they are certified for only 6ths.... 6ths is stupid... should be taught universally 3rds. Why learn to calculate your turn pressure for one cert and then change it for the next.... I was taught 3rds in my OPEN WATER CLASS... and I teach it the same way... If one of my students has an out of air in open water it isn't because I taught them to breath down to 500psi before ascending....

 

[Imbodie]

Caves haven't changed since the 70's and the required training and experience to safely explore them hasn't decreased due to anything but pompous bluff and money. We quite clearly see the damage the reduction in dive training in general has done to the sport. While there are always exceptions most folks aren't going to become quality divers if the standards continue to deteriorate. If trying to cram more training into less time to satisfy the instant gratification generations is your idea of progress have at it. I'm already certified.

It isn't the Agencies... It isn't the Standards... IT IS THE INSTRUCTORS

 

[rjack321]

I heard GUE had a time limit on their Cave1?? not sure about GUE, but NAUI I can stay Cave1 forever... but who would want to do that??

There has never been a time limit on a GUE card (assuming you're still diving at that level).
My wife has been GUE cave1 for almost a decade. She has no interest in doing more for a variety of reasons

 

[rjack321]

It isn't the Agencies... It isn't the Standards... IT IS THE INSTRUCTORS

If courses leave students at an awkward place where they are unable to actually do the dives they are certified for or they crash into their limits almost instantly then perhaps the whole program needs to be rearranged. The only actual cavern I can think of which is worth diving in FL is Jackson Blue. A cavern card is not really much of a license to learn if there are only a couple sites you can actually dive right? Which leads to cavern students breaking standards and doing intro dives.

Instead of blaming the student and saying "this is how we've always done it" stop breaking standards (which seems to be a pervasive issues) perhaps looking at redoing the curriculm is merited...

 

[Germie]

You can do cavern with a twinset. I have done this (and did the intro and full cave all together in 1 week). Let's say you can do all courses with a twinset. Since when is a twinset and longhose not suited as recreational configuration? There is written that an alternate second stage must be used. So a twinset tech configuration is allowed. I have teached 1 time an AOW course to someone in a full tech equipment including drysuit, twin12's, wing+bp, longhose, etc. That diver already knew he wanted to become technical diver and is now on the way for his normoxic trimix.

A cavern card means in Europe you cannot do really much dives. So I prefer to combine with intro.

Then back to the ccr bailout. That can give discussions in same way as rule of thirds on oc. Solo bailout? team bailout? SAC/RMV in case of bailout? (CO2), etc. I believe the ccr cave course is quite new, since 2010? So do all rebreahter divers have a ccr cave card?
But even a ccr cave card does not expire.

And crap divers, yes it are the instructors, but sometimes it are the divers too. Some do yes and amen in a course and after that they do what they want. I have seen divers who where really good, but after 2 years they changed behaviour. Further sometimes divers know it better than agencies with their standards, they think they know it better.

 

[NAM001]

Well when you speak of 1/6's. Why is that there instead of 1/3's. is it to be another mechanism to prevent further than 100 ft depth+penetration. I see no other reason for it. Kinda of like telling your child you cant cross the street unless you hold on to your friends hand. If you don't have a friend you wont cross the street????? The only function I see form it is that you can do multiple training dives on the same tank using 1/6 at a time and not go less than a 1/2 tank.

Im sure some one can enlighten me.

 

[rjack321]

1/3rds in a no flow cave is aggressive as hell. It requires a well oiled team to dive 1/3rds in a no flow cave and many won't do it at all for good reason.

1/6ths is intended to limit penetrations and give beginning cave divers a huge margin of gas to get out when/if they are stressed by a problem.

 

[karstdvr]

I think cave diving discussions are like volcanos. It has been quiet here, and then boom, we have long since departed away from the OP's posting. Going back to the OP I think there is more to this story that we may have all the details of. For example, someone trying to complete cavern and intro together ,would not get a certification for either if there was a skill left uncompleted ,that was needed to satisfy the requirement of both courses.

 

[kensuf]

When I first learned to ride a bike I had training wheels. The purpose behind 1/3rd of 2/3rds or 1/6ths is to give people some experience. As has previously been stated, 1/3rds is too aggressive in the majority of cave diving circumstances anyway.

 

[Imbodie]

When I first learned to ride a bike I had training wheels. The purpose behind 1/3rd of 2/3rds or 1/6ths is to give people some experience. As has previously been stated, 1/3rds is too aggressive in the majority of cave diving circumstances anyway.

But you teach NAUI Cave1 (don't you??, maybe I'm confused)..... much better as a diver to have the option of 3rds and turn at comfort level... than be limited and then just violate whatever standards you were taught and dive 3rds anyway...

Again, maybe having been cavern for so long before doing Cave1 my perspective is a bit skewed.