first compact camera after using the gopro: what to buy?

[fish80]

Hello guys,

turning again to this super helpful forum.

I have been taking videos underwater with my gopro 3 for about 2 years. I love it, but I would really like to be able to take both stills and videos. So now I would like to upgrate to a compact camera. I would like to stick to a simple system with camera, housing, tray and a good video light. No strobe at the moment, and also no extra lenses (maybe a WA one, but I rather not), but I would like a system which I could upgrate in the future when I become more experienced.

I have read various posts on scubaboard and reviews of beginner cameras by backscatter etc., which prompted me to try an olympus tg-4. Pictures looks good, but my impression is that the video is not as good as with the gopro, particulary the focus. I do not use the 4k video in the gopro, just 1080p medium (I know it is unusual) but I think the focus is way better in the gopro. Also, with the tg4 you cannot take videos and stills at the same time, which I think it is a bit of a bummer. I am looking at more expensive cameras like sony rx-100 IV, canon g7x, panasonic lx 100, but also at cheaper options like canon g16, canon s120, or older sony rx models. My questions:

a) Are these cameras harder to operate than the tg4? For example if I use the zoom the lense is going shift out, do i need to worry about the lense touching the housing or losing focus if it gets too close to the housing? Sorry, this is probably a stupid question, I am beginner.

b) Are these cameras less flexible? In the sense that do they always require some extra lenses, like WA, macro etc. to work well? This means I need to commit to a type of shot or another before the dive, which I would not really like.

c) Given my priorities, do you recommend investing in a new camera or buy one of the slightly older but still good models? My priorities (in order of priority ) are:

1. Flexibility: able to shoot video (good quality focus, but 4k is not necessary), stills, wide angle and (less important) macro in the same dive without committing to WA or macro before the dive
2. Videos and still at the same time. Ideally with a function which allows you to take a video and in the mean time automatically stills every x seconds (the gopro has this function, it's pretty cool); This because I am thinking to leave the cam on a tripod or pole underwater to get closer to shy subjects
3. Good with natural light at shallow depths, good with video light at depth. No strobes atm.
4. Ability to shoot RAW and JPG at the same time. At the moment I am not good enough to fiddle with RAW but I would like to keep the very best shoot I get for the future if I become good.
5. Expandable in the future with WA and macro lenses

Thanks for your time reading my super long post and to anybody who will reply, I think this post will be useful for a lot of beginners looks to buy their first system.

 

[stuartv]

I would suggest to look at a Sony RX-100 Mk II (current model is the Mk IV). The Mk II could be had for around $500, the last time I looked.

And look for a Meikon housing. They are around $250.

With no additional lenses, you can get decent WA and macro shots. Serious photographers and purists will scoff at this. To be certain, you can do even better with wet WA and macro lenses added on.

But, particularly, when you are not using a strobe, it is better (IMO) to not have a WA lens. The WA lens advantage is that you can get close enough to your subject for the strobes to illuminate it well, and still have the whole subject fit into the frame. But, if you are not using a strobe, then all the WA lens does is make the subject look farther away - which is no advantage when doing natural light photography, I don't think.

And the macro purists will scoff and say that the RX-100 is not even giving you true macro. Technically, that may be true. But, the point is, how small of a subject can you focus on and have it fill the frame? I think if you look for example images, you will find that the RX-100 Mk II can focus on some pretty small subjects. Not as small as with a true macro lens or macro add-on lenses. But, pretty small nevertheless.

And, when you do decide you are ready to capture better images by using strobes or get better photos of really small subjects, the RX100+Meikon housing will allow you to add on a wet WA lens or diopters for macro stuff. I dived with a buddy that was shooting with an RX100 Mk IV and he got some incredible WA photos (with a WA wet lens added on), so I know it's a very capable rig.

Lastly, the RX100 is fairly simple on its own and is very compact and easily pocketable, if you also want to use it for land photography. The Mk II was built-in WiFi, so you can easily pull photos off of it straight to your computer or smartphone. That is THE reason I would buy it but not consider the Mk I, which does not have WiFi.

 

[fish80]

I would suggest to look at a Sony RX-100 Mk II (current model is the Mk IV). The Mk II could be had for around $500, the last time I looked.

I like your way of thinking Stuart, I was actually zoning in on the same camera. I am thinking about the II because of the improved video compared to the original. I heard bad reviews regarding the white balance however, and that the Canon are way better. Do you have any experience on that? Is it going to be really hard for a beginner?

Also I am super interested in the dual mode video + pictures, but some commented that the pictures are not very good quality. Any experience?

Thanks a million.

 

[Altamira]

Check out the Canon G7X in a Fantasea housing. The Canon G7X is similar to Sony models in picture and video quality, but also has a one button while balance correction which works great. If I lose that camera, I would buy it again for that white balance feature since I shoot in RAW underwater without strobes.

 

[fish80]

Check out the Canon G7X in a Fantasea housing. The Canon G7X is similar to Sony models in picture and video quality, but also has a one button while balance correction which works great. If I lose that camera, I would buy it again for that white balance feature since I shoot in RAW underwater without strobes.

that would be my choice too, but it cannot simultaneously record video and take pictures right?

 

[Altamira]

Yes, there are two ways to shoot video and pics. There are tutorials online that can explain how to do it. I have used the method where you select video mode, and use the rear button to actuate the video, and then you can interrupt the video to take a still by simply pressing the shutter control button on top. Then just press the video button on the back to restart the video. It is very simple to do, and you do not have to mess around with changing modes. But, in that regard, they are not truly simultaneous recordings, but it is fast and easy to start the video recording again. There is another hybrid mode where you can work stills into the video, but have not tried that option yet. You can also pull stills from the video in post production. I have only had the camera a short while, and just used it on a 10 day trip, but I am sure there are divers on SB that can give you some good tips or call the folks at Backscatter.com.

 

[fish80]

. But, in that regard, they are not truly simultaneous recordings, but it is fast and easy to start the video recording again.

How long does it take to take the picture after you press the button? Is there a lag? I am thinking to use this mode to take a video and then if something come close enough for a good picture to snap a picture. but if there is a lag when the video is saved and only after that lag the camera takes the picture it will not work. Thanks!

 

[high/baric]

I'm not exactly sure what you're after. I haven't yet seen a camera that could record video and simultaneously take aperture, shutter speed and ISO-level controlled, full resolution pictures. With my understanding of camera anatomy, I don't think it's even possible or at least not feasible. To take pictures the video recording has to be stopped for a moment. As far as I know, the cameras that "take pictures during video recording" either do that, or just save separate still frames of the video, which you can easily do afterwards while processing the recording anyways. I'm not an expert on this subject though, so maybe someone knows better?

Have you considered using the camera just for taking pictures and mounting your GoPro on the housing's cold shoe to record video? There are several adapters out there that can be used for this. I have a Canon G16 myself and love it. Can take decent macro, has one-button white balance correction etc. Unfortunately it cannot use TTL in manual mode (which is the mode you use when shooting underwater), so external strobe power has to be adjusted manually.

 

[Altamira]

How long does it take to take the picture after you press the button? Is there a lag? I am thinking to use this mode to take a video and then if something come close enough for a good picture to snap a picture. but if there is a lag when the video is saved and only after that lag the camera takes the picture it will not work. Thanks!

I have not timed the transition from video to pic then back to video, but it is pretty fast. I did not notice any significant lag in the shutter speed for the pic, and it seemed to start the video expeditiously once I moved my finger from the top button to the back button. Recommend you go to a store that has the camera, set it up for 1080/60p video and RAW pics, and see if timing is good enough for your needs.

 

[scubadada]

I use the G7X in the Nautica housing. I frequently change back and forth between photo and video, it's very easy, nearly seamless