Which cave has killed the most divers?

[Bubblesong]

I re-read that Captain Sinbad specifically is looking in Florida, which is drivable from Virginia, so the Egypt Option may not work.
The silted low visibility type danger of cave diving just isn't that photogenic.
Would make an interesting video game if the Virginia Tech guys wanted to get in there.

 

[lowviz]

Nice guy.

I guess that we just deal with the fallout.

 

[CAPTAIN SINBAD]

Thank you!

Show him something shiny and he will chase after that instead of his persisting with attempts to demonize a real cave in our back yard. I'm pretty sure that Egypt can handle him in spite of his avatar...

You are feeling very jealous and insecure. It is not my fault if you lead a boring life. It is really not my fault if you have not made a film or can not write a script if your life depended on it. You do not know me and there may be so many areas in which you may be better than what I do. Dont tell yourself that you are offended because I am demonizing cave diving. You are feeling small because someone out there is working on a movie script!!!

If it makes you feel any taller then I will tell you that I am no Steven Spielberg. Heck this is not even my script! There you go. Two inches taller now. Happy?

Now get on with your life.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

You are feeling very jealous and insecure. It is not my fault if you lead a boring life. It is really not my fault if you have not made a film or can not write a script if your life depended on it. You do not know me and there may be so many areas in which you may be better than what I do. Dont tell yourself that you are offended because I am demonizing cave diving. You are feeling small because someone out there is working on a movie script!!!

If it makes you feel any taller then I will tell you that I am no Steven Spielberg. Heck this is not even my script! There you go. Two inches taller now. Happy?

Now get on with your life.

Pulling up a chair with a bag of popcorn. Let the fireworks begin.

 

[Lorenzoid]

You are feeling very jealous and insecure. It is not my fault if you lead a boring life. It is really not my fault if you have not made a film or can not write a script if your life depended on it. You do not know me and there may be so many areas in which you may be better than what I do. Dont tell yourself that you are offended because I am demonizing cave diving. You are feeling small because someone out there is working on a movie script!!!

If it makes you feel any taller then I will tell you that I am no Steven Spielberg. Heck this is not even my script! There you go. Two inches taller now. Happy?

Now get on with your life.

The screenwriter doth protest too much, methinks.

 

[lowviz]

...//.. Dont tell yourself that you are offended because I am demonizing cave diving. You are feeling small because someone out there is working on a movie script!!! ...

Ah, imagine my chagrin.

The first thought that entered my mind when I read that post was a line from the Matrix. "I want to be rich. Somebody important, an actor maybe." Obviously, this is how you see me. macht nichts. I live in the world of science and engineering, it's me. I've been quite successful there. I'm tall enough, fit enough, and have the funds to spend on diving. I'm a happy person, sorry.

What is important is what you could do to the reputation of both cave divers and the cave that becomes your unfortunate victim. Please realize that for every cave diver trying to keep a cave open there is someone else wanting to deny access. Look at any of those caves, they are immaculate in terms of trash and litter, offer benches for the divers to suit up, and the steps leading down to the water are there mainly to protect the environment.

I'm not even much of a cave diver, so if you managed to offend even me with your attempt to turn the cave of your choice into The Amityville Horror, you may wish to return to reality for a few moments...

 

[boulderjohn]

What is important is what you could do to the reputation of both cave divers and the cave that becomes your unfortunate victim. Please realize that for every cave diver trying to keep a cave open there is someone else wanting to deny access.

This is one of the oddest differences between mountain climbing and cave diving.

• Nearly 300 people have died climbing Everest
• Nearly 100 people have died climbing K2
• Over 100 people have died climbing Mt. Ranier
• Over 100 people have died climbing Denali.

Have you ever heard of any efforts to close those mountains to climbers?

In contrast,....

• When some people died diving Morrison Springs in Florida in 1968, the sheriff dynamited it so no one could ever enter the cave again.
• For the same reason, the cave at the Ballroom in Ginnie Springs had a permanent grate installed so no one could get into it.
• When someone died in Eagles Nest cave in 1999, it was closed for four years. After a thoroughly unqualified father took his son, who was not even OW certified, into it on Christmas 2013, with both dying, their family led a fight to get it closed again, a battle they are still fighting. They launched a new petition recently.

It happens all the time in cave diving--someone dies, and there is a movement to close the cave. Many of these caves are on private property, and owners are understandably nervous about being sued. I see this regularly here in the Rocky Mountain region. We do not have any real caves to dive, but the only real technical diving location we have, a large sink hole, is on private property, and the owner is very nervous about it and quite zealously limits access. We could all lose access to that site at a moment's notice, and thus those of us allowed to dive there are extremely careful.

No one involved in cave diving would like to see any movie that builds on the bogus concept of a "killer cave" and stokes the fears of the cave closers.

 

[Lorenzoid]

That's an interesting point (new to me, but probably old discussion among cave divers) that we don't see the families of mountaineering victims moving to close mountains to climbers. What is it specifically about caves that motivates victims' families to move to close a cave?

 

[ScubaJill]

Sure. Now that a lot of people have had the chance to interpret this question and respond to it based on their personal interpretation I can tell you what prompted the thread.

I am helping someone co-write / re-write a movie script. The hero of the story is an old mountain climbing legend who is recovering from an alcohol problem. He is sponsored by a millionaire Presidential candidate to climb K-2, the killer mountain as part of a reality show. He does not understand why he has been chosen since he is an out of shape alcoholic but he is told that they want someone to die up there to generate ratings. The challenge motivates him to fight his alcohol addiction and he springs back in shape to go up there and live.

When the expedition begins he finds out that his real mission isn't to reach the top but to locate the dead body of a climber who died on Abruzzi spur and recover a map from him. This map then leads to the rest of the story which I am not going to mention.

In short script has potential but in order for it to work, the sequences needed to be shot in Pakistan at the real location of K-2 on Abruzzi spur. The problem is that K-2 is not an ideal location to film because while the military operation has eliminated a lot of Taliban militancy, safety of the film crew can not be guaranteed. Government is also hanging by the thread so filming the action sequences in Abruzzi spur may not be possible.We have the option of looking for a different mountain but other candidates (including Everest) are no where near as scary as K2 "The Killer Mountain." Only the best of the best climbers attempt to climb K-2 and one in four of them die.

I was looking for way to re-invent the script so that the cinematic situation changes to something more do-able. As a passing thought the screen writer flirted with the idea of replacing mountain with a submerged cave and the mountain climber being a cave diver. The producer and the studio interested in producing this want a real cave that has killed people. In other words "Killer Mountain" must be replaced by "Killer Cave" if there is such a thing and it must be a real place just like K-2 is a real mountain.

This is why I asked if Cave Diving has an equivalent of K-2 and since a direct comparison would not make sense I kept my question open to interpretation. Let people read into it and write whatever comes into their minds.

I actually think people would go see this, depending on who is in it. It sounds vaguely familiar, though, like something I've seen in the 80s/90s. With Sly Stallone. Or Bruce Willis. Or something that involved a map to a sunken ship and buried treasure.

 

[CAPTAIN SINBAD]

Wreck diving community is largely ok with Andria Doria being known as the "Mount Everest" of wreck diving. There is still debate whether Doria deserves that term or not but there are charters that advertise their trips using that term because the title brings in divers from all over the world. One NJ boat charter also lists the names of all divers who died diving the Andrea Doria on their site and if you are able to find him on his website you will see that the list of names is followed by ...

Death Is Nothing At All

Death is nothing at all...I have only
slipped away into the next room...I am I,
and you are you...whatever we were to
each other that we are still. Call me by
my old familiar name; speak to me in the
easy way which you always used. Put no
difference into your tone; wear no forced
air of solemnity or sorrow. Laugh as we
always laughed at the little jokes we
enjoyed together. Play, smile, think of
me, and pray for me.

I also remember the line from "Shadow Divers" which goes something like "Everyone who does deep wreck diving will either die, see someone die or come very close to death himself." My instructor was inspired by the Shadow Divers to take up wreck diving and so is an entire generation of wreck divers. I am thinking of a conversation in which I am trying to convince Robert Kurson not to write his famous novel because it will be bad for wreck diving. I really do not know where to begin such a talk.

This thread has convinced me that there is no equivalent of K2 in caves so there is no equivalent of Edmund Hillary in cave diving. This makes cave divers totally unworthy of a movie. Next time someone asks why are there no good movies on diving then this thread can be pulled as a reference.