12v Hookah Diving

[fstbttms]

Maybe youre confusing your scuba diving knowledge with hookah knowledge. Hookah air is much less compressed than scuba especially at the depths Im looking to achieve. If I wanted to go 30 feet down without training Id agree with you 100% that would be dumb idea but to go hookah diving at 10 feet at most, it really isnt much more dangerous than say snorkeling.

The ignorance displayed in the above statement is reason enough that you should not consider diving without training. Obviously, you have no idea what you are doing.

 

[jm]

Oreo the hookah compressor I bought delivers 17 psi, thats why its only rated for 5m and only uses 10 amps. Milsim all my initial diving will be from places where I can easily walk in and out from, not jumping into the unknown from a kayak etc., it also will only take place in calm water. Are you guys starting to follow me? Anyway Ill let you know how my death defying dive goes next week.

Is this unit from an established hookah manufacturer? How many CFM (cubic feet per minute) will the device deliver? Also, does it have an accumulator and how much hose does the unit come with? Is the visibility in the river good and is the riverbed absolutely uniform in depth and clear of entanglement hazzards? If you lose the regulator, how will you recover it? How will you clear it? How will you secure the weights to yourself and does the air line from the unit attach to you? How long is the battery good for at 10A output? Will you have a tender? Have you used this equipment before? Will you be wearing exposure protection such as a wetsuit or drysuit? How do you plan to find gold and recover it as it will be in very small quantities? What other equipment will you be using to extract the motherlode while wearing the hookah rig? If this unit is only good to 15 feet, how will you be able to solve the depth limitation if you wish to go deeper?

Last question, what risks do you forsee from using hookah and what do you think the probability of occurrence actually is?

 

[4sak3n]

Oreo the hookah compressor I bought delivers 17 psi, thats why its only rated for 5m and only uses 10 amps. Milsim all my initial diving will be from places where I can easily walk in and out from, not jumping into the unknown from a kayak etc., it also will only take place in calm water. Are you guys starting to follow me? Anyway Ill let you know how my death defying dive goes next week.

This post, along with just about every other post you have contributed to your thread, just details exactly why you SHOULDN'T be doing this. If your compressor only delivers 17 psi then there is no way in hell it could be rated to 5m ( ~15ft). At 5m the ambient water pressure is 1.5ata ( ~21psi). This means that in order to breathe at 5m (15ft) your hookah would have to be delivering at least 21psi of pressure. Except it doesn't ...

This is physics. It is a law of the universe. There is no way of getting around it at all. You can question my motives, can call me a scare-mongerer or someone who wants diving to be controlled and regulated or a kill-joy or whatever makes you feel better about doing something silly but there is no way around getting around the fact this is a law of nature. Nothing in your mind or body will ever overcome this limitation no matter what you do.

I'm not sure whether this discrepancy is due to your very apparent (and potentially fatal) lack of knowledge, misreading or just plain dumbassery on the part of your hookah manufacturer. Regardless of whichever it is this still means that you should not do what you are thinking of doing. Quite simply put this shows that you don't know what you don't know. And the things that will kill you are precisely those things.


If this weren't the new divers' forum I wouldn't even bother replying because the recklessness displayed can only be a result of malicious trolling. But I want to illustrate to other new divers that it isn't a matter of "never hold your breath". There are many, many reasons not to do this.

OP ... do whatever you want. Your death or injury won't affect me in the slightest. I have no emotional investment in your silly plans. But if someone else impressionable reads this and ends up killing themselves with your devil-may-care stubbornness ... well, let's just say that this would fall under the umbrella of a "bad thing".

 

[t-mac]

First reason is I dont plan on going that deep, second reason is a gas motor would not be allowed on a state park, third reason is the 12v one costs less.

I gave my 2 cents above and I'm not offering anything else on the potential safety issues since that has been sufficiently covered. I am really curious about this plan you have, however. As I understand it, you will be using this hookah to look for gold in a river. Apparently the site is a shallow, slow-moving river in a state park. You are concerned about violating park rules by using a gas powered unit, so the electric one is the choice. I wonder about the legality of the rest of the operation. Does the park allow diving at all (presume you've looked at this -- gas hookah, no, electric hookah, yes)? Do they allow mining (assuming this is raw gold)? Do they allow salvage/archaeology (assuming a wreck or some other man-made source)? If you find something, who owns it? It may be that none of this matters, but your concern about the gas powered hookah violating the rules suggests you are concerned about the legality and if so, there may be other issues for you to consider. You may not want to share this, but perhaps the big question in my mind is why do you believe there is gold in this river anyway? If you haven't, you should read Mel Fisher's story. He also started in rivers (didn't work out), but ultimately hit it rich with the Atocha, but not without a lot of legal battles. Seems like he could be a role model. (I should note, though, that he used regular open-circuit scuba, not hookahs.)

 

[diversteve]

Brownie's Third Lung - one of if not the most respected Hookah dive mfr's has this posted under every system they sell on their website:

*WARNING: Improper use of any underwater diving equipment can result in serious injury or death. DO NOT dive without proper training!

SASS (Surface Air Supplied Systems) has an online training course. This is from page 1:

Diving from ANY air source has some risks.
Although hookah diving is inherently safer because little gear is worn, and there is always a safety link to the surface through the hose system, you must fully understand the risks and be prepared to deal with them. The specific risks and how to handle them will be discussed later.
Although serious injury or death from diving is extremely rare, you need to recognize, from the start, that risk exists; you must accept it and take responsibility for your own actions.
In simple terms, the primary risk is summed up in one word: Ignorance. Even if you have tried diving before, forget all you think you know and start with an open mind.
You will be asked to sign an Assumption of Risk waiver which explains the risks of diving.

I suggest you review the rest of the course: http://www.airlinebyjsink.com/userfiles/files/SASS home study c 27Oct10.pdf

So even if you don't believe any of us you might listen to them.

It seems like (disclaimer - I have no practical knowledge) a 50lb. weightbelt is a little excessive if you're not wearing any buoyancy compensation. The standard training "brick" in lifesaver courses is 10 lbs. - when you drop one in the pool it's a struggle to return it to the surface. You might want to practice jettisoning the weight belt until it becomes instinctual before you need to. Maybe you'll need to the first time if I'm correct...most rivers have a silty unstable bottom so even walking out may be more difficult than you imagine it will be.

I have a friend that dives tethered (on scuba not hookah) in rivers. He's also a treasure hunter of sorts (lots of river tubers drop stuff)

People fish in rivers. There's a lot of invisible mono filament fishing line in rivers. Some still has sharp hooks attached to it. So I recommend you purchase a line cutter in addition to a good knife. http://www.piranhadivemfg.com/category/Knifes-Line-Cutters-&-Z-Knifes-17

And place them on different parts of your body. Having a knife on one side only won't do you much good when your opposite arm is caught and you can't reach it to free yourself. Eventually the batteries will run out on your hookah system also...

My friend also got caught up in strands of barbed wire once - someone had dumped it in the water. Since then he also carries a good set of cutters/pliers.

 

[dreamwrx]

This post, along with just about every other post you have contributed to your thread, just details exactly why you SHOULDN'T be doing this. If your compressor only delivers 17 psi then there is no way in hell it could be rated to 5m ( ~15ft). At 5m the ambient water pressure is 1.5ata ( ~21psi). This means that in order to breathe at 5m (15ft) your hookah would have to be delivering at least 21psi of pressure. Except it doesn't ...

Not that I condone this act of diving without training or the use of a 12v hookah in place of SCUBA training.

But 17psi rating is 17psig where ambient pressure is 0psig. Effectively its 14.7 + 17= 31 psia, or 2.1 ATM.

Like I said though.. I don't think he should be doing this whether or not it is sufficient air.

 

[4sak3n]

Ah, that makes more sense. It's funny how a simple 'g' can make all of the difference. Thanks for the clarification.

Little distinctions like that are important underwater.

 

[GrumpyOldGuy]

Air Compressor Electric DC 12V Hookah Diving Yacht Boat Hull Cleaning Dredging | eBay

I think this is what the OP is intending to use. Looks like a low pressure compressor jury rigged to a snorkel. I have never used such a device, but would be concerned about how the pressure is limited to prevent lung injury. There is not enough information on the site to understand this.

 

[fstbttms]

Air Compressor Electric DC 12V Hookah Diving Yacht Boat Hull Cleaning Dredging | eBay

I think this is what the OP is intending to use. Looks like a low pressure compressor jury rigged to a snorkel. I have never used such a device, but would be concerned about how the pressure is limited to prevent lung injury. There is not enough information on the site to understand this.

Wow, that is the crappiest "hookah" (and I use the term loosely) that I have ever seen, and as someone who earns his living using a hookah, I have seen a lot. And at $400, it's real rip-off. A very cheap, Chinese-built bike-tire-and-pool-toy-filling air compressor, a length of air hose (simply shoved on to the nipple on the compressor, BTW) and a friggin' sporting goods store snorkel (notice how the air hose/snorkel connection is cleverly hidden under the coils of hose. No doubt to hide the fact that they are duct taped together, or some other similar mickey mouse setup.) It doesn't even have a 2nd stage reg. No doubt it doesn't produce enough air to operate a 2nd stage reg. I hope the OP is not going to use this jury-rigged POS. I'd be too embarrassed to go out in public with it.

---------- Post added May 10th, 2012 at 08:33 AM ----------

Here's another reason this thing is a POS- having the air hose attached to the top of the snorkel means it will be constantly trying to torque the snorkel out your mouth. Even if you somehow secured the air hose to your weight belt so you could hold the snorkel in the proper, comfortable upright position, the hose is stiff and will stick up above the snorkel by a foot or two at least. This will snag on every possible obstruction when underwater and when swimming on the surface, will be heavy enough that keeping the mouthpiece between your teeth will be very difficult.

 

[DivingOverboard]

This thread is if nothing else interesting. Fstbttms I really cant take anything you say seriously you obviously have your own bias. Your the type whos so ready to tell how your expensive setup is so much better than everyone elses, but really nobody is as impressed about it as you are. It doesnt matter to if its attached to a snorkel or a regulator as long as it works and I actually bought the compressor and a regulator separately so my setup will be different from that one. And if you look at the feedback of that "jury rigged pos" seller I see no complaints. And considering he accepts no returns thats impressive.
Thank you Steve for posting an actual source for hookah diving, which is more in line with mine and a ex navy SEAL's assessment of the risk. As for the 50 lb weightbelt that was a joke, everything in the post was over the top but apparently that went over everyones heads. Ill try to be more literal in the future.
Dreamwrx thank you for giving the correct air pressure, its nice to read some facts for a change. Anyway in summation, yes there is some risk but its becoming increasing clear thats these risks are being overblown by some people that have a bias against inexpensive hookah diving in general.