4 questions after a first dive weekend

[Pinecube]

1.) DSS, BP/W, and Tobin's short inflator hose
I'm not sure what the proper thumb/pointer finger form is, but I did find that I had to find a way to tie my inflator to the strap so that I wouldn't have to search for it. A small piece of bungee works. Otherwise I do the vast majority of dumping air from the butt dump. I find it much easier to reach down and back than to pull the inflator up and back over your shoulder to dump. (note that this wont work if you're vertical)

2.) BP/W and a weight belt makes it hard to ditch weight if ever needed
As much as "you shouldn't have to ditch weight" i'm not convinced that it's good advice for beginners. It takes time to get that level of comfort in the water. I imagine myself at the surface, panicked (because murphy's law dictates I wont be calm trying to do this), trying franticially to unthread a weight belt, or cut off my wing.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I just wear my weight belt overtop of my harness.

3.) Slight over weighting as a beginner?
If you're in an uncontrolled ascent at 15-20' I wouldnt be worried about "perfect form". I'd be dumping air, trying to swim down.
A lot of what you're talking about with bouyancy control comes with experience. Controlling bouyancy with your breathing isn't something that comes natural to most people, it sure didnt for me. An extra 2lbs wont hurt, but you may find over time that you can shed some weight even from where you are now.

4.) Proper weight distribution
Everyone comes in different shapes and sizes, where the weights work on me may not work for you.

 

[bryanmc57]

1.) DSS, BP/W, and Tobin's short inflator hose
Man this thing is short. I can't even get my hand arched around into the thumb/pointer finger I was taught when I am wearing full coldwater gear. An extra 4-5 inches here would be nice. I don't mean to start a debate or anything of the sort, but let me ask: I assume this problem is on me... what is the proper form to handle this thing? Like I said, with all my gear on, I find it exceptionally difficult if not impossible to get my left hand on that L position.

Not sure exactly why you are having an issue with your inflator hose. Is your bp too low on your back so the hose isn't coming far enough over your shoulder? As far as hand position... (I didn't put on heavy gloves so you could see better)

Inflate

Deflate

You don't need a death grip on the inflator, it really just lays in your hand. You should have a piece of inner tube on your left shoulder strap (up near the front of your shoulder. The low pressure hose goes under this to keep the inflator hose in place. A loop of bungee at your left shoulder d ring will hold the actual inflator in place as well.

 

[tbone1004]

1. What bryan said above. I don't have any issue with it in cold water and much prefer it to the long inflator hoses. It's VERY different if you are used to a super long inflator, but I have no problem orally inflating with it in cold water with gloves on. This is not just a cave thing, also a wreck penetration thing, but in any rig you shouldn't be using the inflator to dump air except for the initial descent at the surface and the last few feet of ascent when you go vertical to make sure you don't hit your head on anything. Oh, make sure you do put a small piece of bungee loop under the left shoulder d-ring to retain the inflator so it doesn't go anywhere.

2. you can put the weight belt on after you put the rig on if you want it over the crotch strap or you can thread the crotch strap through weight belt after you don the rig. If wearing a belt, I prefer to leave the crotch strap over the weight belt so it doesn't accidentally come off since ditching weight should be an absolute last ditch effort.

3. overweighting will only accelerate that snowball effect so it is far better to practice in a deep pool going up and down the wall. There is also nothing wrong with doing a step-wise ascent profile where you come up to half absolute pressure and stop, then half that and stop. I.e. 100ft to 33ft and stop there for a second to stabilize, then come up to 15ft for your safety stop and stop, then up to the surface. I have no problem with being slightly overweighted because it would make me a hypocrite. Not because I intentionally overweight myself, but because the type of diving I do basically means I'm always overweight due to the amount of gas I'm carrying.

4. depends, I prefer not to have to use any lead and will do a lot to ensure I don't have to. You can place weights wherever you want, but if you have a steel plate you shouldn't need much if any.

If you want any more help, I'd be more than happy to spend some time with you on Skype and show you how I have my DSS rigs set up to see if that can help, pm if you want.

 

[Doby45]

If you don't want it, I will trade you a Zeagle Ranger for it!

 

[admikar]

Talking of horizontal trim ascents-in drysuit I found it easier to ascent slightly head up and vent through inflator since raising my arm will automatically vent drysuit. Anything wrong with that?

 

[Doby45]

That's what I do and it works perfectly fine. Now take that with a grain of salt as I do not have a "DRYSUIT DIVER" card. 40 dives later and I am still alive and doing well in my drysuit.

 

[tbone1004]

nothing wrong with that, but the drysuit dump is on the same side as the wing dumps for a reason, you can usually roll to the right and dump both at the same time, but it depends on how much air you keep in your suit and how much ends up in the feet. I have to go VERY vertical to get the inflator to dump air, so I usually will ascend in a bit of a rocking motion. Dump from the suit and the wing, stabilize, on the next part of ascent, I will go slightly head up to move the bubble out of my feet, and then repeat as necessary.

 

[CptTightPants21]

Talking of horizontal trim ascents-in drysuit I found it easier to ascent slightly head up and vent through inflator since raising my arm will automatically vent drysuit. Anything wrong with that?

Nothing wrong with it, but it is bad form and sloppy. If you take technical instruction from a competent instructor, they will have some issues with you being perpetually in an elevated position.

Assuming controlled stops every 10ft.

When you want to ascend, go slightly head up/drop legs to reduce drag and move air bubble up (what you have been doing). Do this for about 5ft, venting drysuit.

Return to horizontal position with 5ft to go until your next stop. Use butt dump on wing and breath control as needed to ascend the remaining 5ft and stop.

You are a brand new diver so there is nothing wrong with what you have been doing. It probably took me 50 dives before I felt good in a drysuit.

 

[Buliwyf]

Not sure exactly why you are having an issue with your inflator hose. Is your bp too low on your back so the hose isn't coming far enough over your shoulder? As far as hand position... (I didn't put on heavy gloves so you could see better)

Inflate
inflind
View attachment 380018

Deflate

View attachment 380020

You don't need a death grip on the inflator, it really just lays in your hand. You should have a piece of inner tube on your left shoulder strap (up near the front of your shoulder. The low pressure hose goes under this to keep the inflator hose in place. A loop of bungee at your left shoulder d ring will hold the actual inflator in place as well.

The second pic is not possible for me. My DSS inflator hose is slid through the bike tire tubes on my strap to keep it in place.

But the inflator is so short it only sits on my shoulder. It's not even close to laying on my chest. I'm barrel chested like a viking. I use my right hand to operate the inflator, and butt dump when in a regular diving position. My computer is on my right arm. My right hand can operate the inflator fine. My left hand does ok, but there is no way in heck I can get it into position like the second pic

I don't get why there is a specific way anyone has to do it. I just push the darn button.

The good news is I can bottom out on the sandy bottom and not get sand in my inflator. As it doesn't dangle below me, at all.

 

[Lorenzoid]

I can't imagine how frustrating it would be to learn to dive a BP/W, including weighting myself for both buoyancy and trim, purely from advice on the Internet. I had done a couple of hundred dives in a traditional BC when I switched to a (DSS) BP/W, and it took me days to figure everything out--and that was with an instructor. Is there no one you can ask to show you? No GUE or UTD course nearby? The advice here is top-notch, but no substitute for a course or some mentoring.