80'S AL Tank Inspections - Eddy Current?

[Scared Silly]

A quick few - I am pulling this out of memory as I do not want to dig through my materials in the basement. Here are somethings that would be going through my mind.

Cylinders marked as 3AL before 1988 are 6351 I can not remember all of the dates though. Who was the cylinder mfg.?

Is this who the shop is refering to and who you sent one of your cylinders to
http://www.psicylinders.com? I am confussed?

PSI does teach the eddy current ussage but so does Visual Plus. Who inspected your cylinder? Ask to see their certification.

Next - did you sign anything giving the shop premission to possibly destroy the cylinder before giving the cylinders to the shop for inspection? If you signed nothing then the shop had no right to destroy the cylinder(s).

If you did sign something but the shop can not produce any documentation or the cylinder then you still may have a claim against them.

 

[captain]

I have asked several time for a mod to make this link a sticky. It is best to learn all you can on the subject of tank testing. This link is from the Department of Transportation web site and is a list of all DOT approved testers in the country. I prefer to bypass the dive shops and go directly to independent testers and get a complete understanding of what test are to be done and that they will give you a copy of the test results. I find very few dive shops listed as approved testers.

http://hazmat.dot.gov/sp_app/approvals/hydro/hydro_retesters.htm

 

[in_cavediver]

I would be very leery of a shop who stamps any tank failed without consulting others. Visuals are to subjective.

I, as a consumer, would never give a dive shop permission to 'X' out one of my tanks on thier opinion. Hydro shop - yes, Dive shop - No. If I wasn't an inspector, I'd take a failed tank to a couple of other shops to verify.

Lastly, If you never signed a form authorizing the shop to destroy you tanks, calmly demand the tanks back if you don't have them, then demand they replace them. If they don't, take them to small claims court for the cost of 3 new tanks. They (dive shop) do NOT have authority by law to destroy private property during a VIP (unless a licensed hydro shop while doing the hydro). VIP are not mandated or governed by law and a failed VIP does NOT invalidate the tank. Only a failed hydro can do this (due to DOT regs) without your consent.

 

[Scared Silly]

I should have added one other - After 1 Jan an Eddy Current test is required at the time of hydro. This mandated by DOT. Luxfer in the past has been reccomending this every 2.5 years.

http://www.luxfercylinders.com/news/releases/20041012.shtml

 

[Hoosier]

I should have added one other - After 1 Jan an Eddy Current test is required at the time of hydro.

Not the time of hydro, but a visual...

http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf97/411928_web.pdf

 

[Scared Silly]

Not the time of hydro, but a visual...

http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf97/411928_web.pdf

My comment was in regards to cylinders made from the 6351 alloy. At the time of requalification (i.e. hydro) an eddy current test is required.

All cylinders must have a visual inspections at the time of requalification.

 

[captain]

Not the time of hydro, but a visual...

http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf97/411928_web.pdf

Read it again, they are not referring to the yearly dive shop visual, they are referring to the visual done by the hydro facility every 5 years along with the hydro(requalification).

 

[Divenomad]

The latest, computerized version of Vis plus isn't really subjective. The program determines whether a tank fails or passes. Used properly, it identifies the location of the crack by degree and which threads are affected. A magnification scope is provided to visually confirn test results. A printout is available for the customers records. We've had quite a few failures on tanks that we had previously passed (including three of our own tanks, which were then retired) These tanks are usually about thirty tears old and use an older alloy that I think many shops in Florida won't fill in any event because of the alloy used. In case you were wondering, none of these customers bought new tanks, but instead asked us to dispose of them. Which recycling prices so high, you'd think it was a good deal, until you realize that the centers wont take the tanks until they are sawn lengthwise in half.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

Inspections on earlier eddy current equipment can be subjective in that a normal fold may be interpreted as a crack. The DOT requires that eddy current inspectors be trained and that their employers document the training but they are a little vauge on the training required.

The new DOT final rules are extremely interesting in that eddy current inspected tanks must have "VE" stamped after the hydro test date. It's also very interesting that the DOT regs require an eddy current only every 5 years rather than the more frequent luxfer recomendation of 2.5 years and the dive shop norm of doing the eddy current inspection every 12 months along with the annual VIP.

That makes it difficult for shops who are tempted to try to "condemn" a tank for failing an eddy current inspection as it is an inspection that not required by the DOT until the tank is hydro tested (requalified). It's clear that a shop could refuse to put their VIP sticker on it and that they could refuse to fill it, but they can in no way shape or form condemn the tank. That ability lies only with a hydro test facility that has been issued an RIN by the DOT.

In your case, since the DOT does not require the eddy current inspection until the next hydro test - the shop owes you replacement tanks if they stamped out the numbers as they have grossly exceeded their authority. Refuse to pass it for a scuba industry standard VIP, absolutely - but condemn the tank and render it unserviceable, absolutely not.

The other thing that will get even more confusing is that many shops do not know when Luxfer or Walter Kidde stopped using 6351-T6 alloy. For AL80's Luxfer stopped using it in mid May 1988. But other Luxfer tank sizes were switched to 6061-T6 alloy in the months prior to and after may 1988. Shops and test facilities really need a chart of sizes and dates to know what is or is not a 6351-T6 tank.

Walter Kidde continued making 6351 T-6 tanks until 1990 even though they were owned by Luxfer by that time. ALL Walter Kidde tanks used 6351-T6 alloy and all of them require eddy current testing - even those made after May 1988.

Catalina on the other hand NEVER used 6351-T6 alloy in any of it's tanks and none of them require eddy current testing.

There were I believe 3 or 4 different exemptions under which aluminum tanks were initially made before they were all standardized under the "3AL" standard. These earlier exempt aluminum tanks were supposed to be stamped "3AL" when they were requalified, but a large number of test facilities seem to have been lax in doing that.

The good news is that the DOT has made up it's mind regarding 6351 tanks, service life and eddy current test frequency. The bad news is that many dive shops will probably ignore it in favor of more conservative and financially lucrative test criteria. Just don't let them get away with condemning your tanks.

 

[drywaterdiv]

VIP are governed by law (DOT) A DOT approved test company can fail a tank from a VIP. A VIP is done prior to doing a hydro test. If it fail a visual the tank then has the DOT marking x out.