Andrea Doria and Empress of Ireland

[CAPTAIN SINBAD]

Question for those who have done these wrecks. Lets say that you have obtained the certifications necessary for these dives, how many wreck penetration dives worth of actual experience would you recommend to someone wanting to go inside these wrecks? :headscratch:

 

[Dhboner]

Both those wrecks are well above my pay grade but I dive with someone who has been on the Doria and he said it is deep, dark with potentially very strong current. On one dive he had his scooter wide open and was pretty much remaining motionless against the current. I have no first hand experience but my sense is that you need to have a LOT of deep dives in current and a LOT of experience doing your deco in strong current.

 

[rhwestfall]

I have talked with guys who have dove the Empress (as well as the Doria).... Even staying outside her, the overhead in the Empress is just deadly due to limited visibility, hanging stuff, orientation of the wreck, etc. Can't imagine her interior (and due to her age, I wonder the stability)... A-game only....

 

[decompression]

I'm familiar with the Empress but it's been awhile, a good friend crews one of the Doria charters. For those wrecks there are about 100 baby steps to safely dive them. There are many other wrecks just as challenging but those always seem to be in the headlines. If you want to expedite the process, get trained (preference goes to John Chatterton) and a lot of similar training dives in. Depending on the diver, a couple hundred should do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Doppler]

Have dived both and each has its own characteristics... However, without seeing someone in the water, it would be idiocy to answer such a question with a generic response... To use a skiing analogy, wreck dives have a way of changing a bunny slope into a double black diamond in a heartbeat. And not all certs are worth anything.

 

[DevonDiver]

I haven't dived those wrecks, but I do a lot of technical wreck penetrations.

As Steve said, it's a very individual question; which deserves more than a simple numerical answer. The diver has to accumulate experience in 2 ways; firstly in technical and wreck penetration diving, secondly on the specific wreck itself.

In theory, a diver shouldn't be progressing to technical wreck penetration until they are first completely familiar and comfortable with decompression diving in the depth range sought. Only then should they seek technical wreck training. That training, like all training, is only the very start of the learning process. It's the tip of the iceberg of what you need to know.

Once a technical wreck c-card is issued, the diver needs to progressively develop their wreck penetration and skills. It takes time to ingrain and refine all the drills and skills necessary. You should be doing that in conditions that won't cost your life if you make a mistake. Line laying, overhead emergency drills, gas and dive management need to be at a level of unconscious response. Line laying itself is part-science, part-art.... it takes time to get good at it. The skills are also highly perishable if left idle.

As with any technical or overhead diving - if the core skills cause task-loading, then you aren't ready to progress in challenge yet.

Then comes the matter of experience acquisition. The diver needs to do a lot of dives in order to gain exposure to all those hiccups that matter. The prudence of undergoing that process in wrecks that won't kill you over a hiccup is obvious. You have to gain your 'smarts' for wreck penetration in benign circumstances, so that missing those smarts won't kill you in malign situations.

Only when you are ready with ingrained, automatic skills, life-saving experience and a generous comfort zone should you step up to a higher challenge. Then comes the process of gaining wreck specific experience and knowledge. You have to know the wreck and its unique hazards intimately. You learn this by diving the wreck without penetration. Then you learn more by progressively extending your penetration over a series of dives. The length of that series... well, that depends on the individual wreck.

Read more in this article: Technical Wreck Penetration - How Many Preparation Dives Do I Need?

 

[Doppler]

Andy, as always mate... Thanks for taking the time to write that.

 

[oldschoolto]

Andrea Doria 1991 with John Chatterton - YouTube This is how a real Northeast Wreck Diver does it....

Jim...

 

[Divetech99]

It's amazing that folks back then were diving on air to that depth. And using gear and procedures that we would probably never use or follow in today's training environment.

One can only have the deepest respect and admiration for Tec pioneers like John Chatterton.

You can tell from his narration that as he was diving the Doria in 1991, he was formulating the foundation of today's Tec diving (eg stick to your plan, realize that equipment can fail, know the wreck well before you dive it, etc).

This is wreck diving at its finest.

 

[oldschoolto]

It's amazing that folks back then were diving on air to that depth. And using gear and procedures that we would probably never use or follow in today's training environment.

One can only have the deepest respect and admiration for Tec pioneers like John Chatterton.

You can tell from his narration that as he was diving the Doria in 1991, he was formulating the foundation of today's Tec diving (eg stick to your plan, realize that equipment can fail, know the wreck well before you dive it, etc).

This is wreck diving at its finest.

This was standard diving back then.... I was doing wrecks in the 100' to 175' when I was 15 years old... SOLO.... Slow and steady, Baby steps... And all on Navy tables... :amazed: And this was the standard deep rig of the day... This is my vintage rig, Just like what I dove back then... Now painted to look cool..

Jim....