Anxiety Management

[Bennno]

Huh? I know I'm repeating myself: Planning to dive an unknown circuit is poor planning, in fact it's breaking a basic rule of cave diving. It is setting a bad example even more so when you are happen to be an instructor.
I don't understand how you can dispute that. Ask your cave instructor what he or she thinks about that... I'm pretty sure I know what the answer will be.

It can be hard sometimes to hit the right tone when English is not your first language, sorry (I obiously know that nobody called me an a-hole literally... see, there is one language thing already).

 

[nakatomi]

it sounds like a great deal of planning DID go into the dive.

The primary mistake that was made was that the circuit was not set up as we learn it in cave class.

A circuit usually requires three dives. The short version is this:
During dive number one the circuit is set up. The team places a jump line to connect to the circuit, swims along the circuit line and places a cookie on the line when turn pressure is reached.
On dive number two the jump is put in at the other end of the circuit line and the team swims into the circuit from the other direction until it gets to the cookie or hits turn pressure. If the turn pressure is reached before getting to the cookie, the dive is obviously turned.
During dive #3 the jumps are removed and the circuit that has been set up is cleaned up.

In this case the dive was not set up. John could have been on a completely different line leading to some place not being the exit. That in itself would not be a problem, had the team turned when reaching turn pressure to return on the exact path. As I understand, the team continued in the hope that their line was actually the one leading back towards the exit, which luckily turned out to be the case.

---------- Post added January 13th, 2016 at 11:16 PM ----------

1. Did your cave training discuss anxiety? Did it talk about how to avoid it? Did it talk about how to manage it once it appears? If it doesn't should it and how?

2. Is this something that divers are wary of talking about? Should it be discussed more?

3. Do others find that hypercapnia is a factor? What other factors are relevant?

4. What do you do when anxiety appears?

1. Yes, my training did cover it. We talked about how to avoid anxiety and how to resolve it. A good start is, as you said, to stop and relax. Resolve any problems that might exist before continuing with other tasks. Problems tend to stack up. Preferably end the dive and don't risk pushing onward in the hope that your anxiety gets better.
Usually it will not get better. Accept the way you feel, call the dive and try again another day

2. Yes, I feel it needs to be talked about more. Many people will not admit to it, but my take is that the majority of all cave divers (and even divers in general) have experienced anxiety situations like you describe

3. Hypercapnia is a major factor and needs to be avoided at all cost. Another contributor can be nitrogen narcosis.

4. As detailed in 1. Also try to clear negative thoughts out of your head and replace them with positive thoughts. Don't let thoughts like "if I don't find the line again, I'll die" control you. Think positive, relax and solve the problem if there is one. You need to regain control of the situation. OK'ing the line, as you did, is a good start, as may be getting in touch contact with your buddy if the vis is poor and that is of concern to you.

The usual procedure is to overcome anxiety is to advance progressively dive by dive. As your diving progresses, your comfort level will increase greatly.

 

[Makhno]

Interesting discussions. I spoke with a guy a couple days ago who described a "trust me circuit" -- sounded like his buddy did a visual jump from the Devil's system Park Bench to the Bone Room, then another from the Big Room back to the gold line near the Maple Leaf. Seems like it might be easy for someone who dives Ginnie Springs regularly, but not for someone new to the cave system. If the guiding buddy had sometime during that dive had that myocardial infarction, the newbie would have been in a bad situation …

On the issue of anxiety, I was diving solo at Ginnie yesterday, and had unprecedented and severe cramps in my right calf … I've had cramps during dives before but nothing. as crippling as these … they didn't go away with stretches or self-massages; I started to think "hmm, I'm all alone in a cave, and seem almost unable to swim … but need to swim out of here to live … therefore time to get out of here."

The anxiety was manageable, but it was enough to remind me that I was near the limits of my competence as well as of my comfort zone.

Anxiety has evolved as a natural way for us to take care in risky situations, and any cave dive is a risky situation.

As to how to deal with it when it happens, I aagree that either CO2 or exertion is a real factor; I'm not sure which is which. They say Co2 retention can come from efforts to slow the. breathing rate; however I find that I've felt the most relaxed when breathing slowly, and that my experiences with anxiety have all involved fast breathing.

So, I agree with what Nasser said above about yogic breathing and mental exercises. In my and many others' eexperiences, they help.

 

[lerpy]

@jvanostrand I am very new to cave diving myself, and in my course we did talk about anxiety, and how to not let it get out of hand. Breathing, focusing, turning the dive of course, things to help re-focus and not let it get away from you. It is a topic that I think is important, and often not talked about, in some cases when people talk about their fears and anxiety, other may think this makes them weak. I actually see this in my job, which at times can have high stress and anxiety, and I have felt it many times at work. From my work experience, my feeling is if you don't have some,( I don't want to say fear,) but lets say recognition of the seriousness, and what could happen if things go wrong, then I would have concerns being your partner as you may not even recognize something going south. I to some degree have the same feeling with diving, of any type frankly. The sport has serious aspects, and definitely with cave diving, it does not have to grip you, but if you do not recognize those factors then you may be more of a risk to others and yourself.

I had a few instances of anxiety when doing my Intro training last year, actually in Peacock as well. I had gone through the ( I hope this is right ) the peanut tunnel and exited it ( this is going in) at which point I was close enough to my third I wanted to turn. The training buddy I was with did not really notice my signaling to turn and was carrying on, the instructor snagged them and we got turned around. This set me back a little because I wanted to turn and now we had gone a couple minutes past, in my mind, the turn time. We head out and go back into the tunnel heading out, part way though the tunnel another team entered the tunnel. It felt tight, I'm 6.3 260, it was tight for me, and I am new and this is the first time in this tunnel, and now I am pushing past three others. Anyhow we got out fine and I was a little shaken, but we chatted about the anxiety, how to manage it, what I might have been able to do manage the situation better, etc.

Same week went into Devil's with my buddy, who has a lot more cave dives than me, and he was going along having a good time which was great and I was glad to be with him and I trust him. He went off to one side of the cave at one point around a bit of a pillar and being his buddy I followed. I suddenly realized, I can't see the line. Logically I knew it was " just over there" but I was not happy, I signalled him, and moved back over to were I could see the line, I think I even put my fingers for a bit to reassure myself. After the dive I talked to my buddy, said for now as a newbie, I need to stay where I can touch the line, I need that to feel comfortable.

This was long winded, sorry. I think a touch of anxiety, in the form of recognizing the risk is healthy and is a wonderful part of our human ability that helps keep us safe.

 

[karstdvr]

@jvanostrand , in some cases when people talk about their fears and anxiety, other may think this makes them weak..

You share some great experiences, and insights. It is amazing that we have this feeling that if we discuss fears and anxiety, then others will perceive us as weak, and sometimes this is true. I have seen buddy teams reprove a member because they called the dive too soon,with the probable cause being fear/anxiety. The next time that person inorder to be part of the team, or fear of being ostracized,will push themselves beyond their comfort level.What the other team members don't realize is they have caused a problem,because their other member is not focused on the dive and team,but dealing with anxiety.

I recall a dive about 15 years ago at Peacock when we used to be able to enter in at Olsen sink. We had two guys that wanted to join us, and they wanted to swim to Challenge. Halfway I noticed some erratic light movement, and I came up to that individual, and I saw the largest "saucer eyes" I have ever seen. I could have put my primary light in his eyes and I don't think he would have seen it. I gave that person tactile cueing to turn around, and we swam to the exit with me very close by. Along the way he saw the gold line of the Peanut restriction line that ends on a slope, and he bolted in that direction. Took a few minutes to get him to stop, and come back to our original line to continue the exit toward Olsen. When we finally exited, and at the end of the dive I noticed they only had 500 psi left in double 104s. Here is the irony, I think I had the biggest anxiety because I thought this person is so close to panic, he is going to lose it, and I am going to watch him drown. So, from that day forward, if anybody ever called a dive because of fear, anxiety, or anything, I applaud them, and express my appreciation for their concern for themselves, which translates to the team.

 

[Littlerayray]

The people who don't feel anxious or worried tend to be the ones who get complacent

Now this could be any form of anxiousness or worry or fear or what have you

I know I'm going to get berated for this post but think about it it's that slight little bit of fear that makes you double check your gear or call a dive it's that little bit of fear that makes you watch your spg it's that little bit of fear that makes you carry redundancies

Imho those who say they don't get anxious or never felt anxious are lying or have never evaluated or thought about what could go wrong and could be dangerous to themselves or others

 

[BabyDuck]

i had a period of feeling anxious coming up into the cavern from the pothole line, a place i was very familiar with. for a couple of months, it made me nervous and i couldn't pinpoint why. then i figured it out - i was breathing fast there, since it's so vertical, and had fooled my brain into thinking i was anxious, when all i was doing was preventing overexpansion. my normal respiratory rate on oc is 4-6 breaths a minute, so i was 'huffing and puffing' in comparison. so i slowed down a bit coming up there, and the feeling resolved. it was weird, feeling anxious when i had no 'reason' to be anxious there.

 

[kensuf]

The people who don't feel anxious or worried tend to be the ones who get complacent

Now this could be any form of anxiousness or worry or fear or what have you

I know I'm going to get berated for this post but think about it it's that slight little bit of fear that makes you double check your gear or call a dive it's that little bit of fear that makes you watch your spg it's that little bit of fear that makes you carry redundancies

Imho those who say they don't get anxious or never felt anxious are lying or have never evaluated or thought about what could go wrong and could be dangerous to themselves or others

I understand what you're getting at, and I tell my cave students that the "home cave" dives are the most dangerous because familiarity can breed complacency.

But I need to berate you. Having logged more than a few cave dives in my life, and some in rather trying circumstances, I don't have any worries or fear about a nice swim to 1/3rds in Ginnie, but I've lived through enough **** in my life that I am anything but complacent. It doesn't have to be anxiety or worry, prior experience can also teach you to pay attention to everything and that the simplest of dives can be the most dangerous.

I guess it could be argued that I worry or fear about complacency setting in.

 

[Littlerayray]

Exactly you knowing that complacency can cause mishaps is your fear keeping you from getting complacent

 

[WrmBluH2O]

I have respect and gratitude for people who are willing to share their mistakes with friends, students, and aquaintances. I have even greater admiration for those willing to post their mistakes in online forums. It takes a big person who cares enough about others to share his experience knowing he is likely to receive constructive criticism regarding what was put forth.

Posting in the Cave Diving forum may seem odd or inappropriate as I am brand spanking new to OW diving. I am not answering the OP's four good questions because I am both inexperienced and not a cave diver.

But, as a person new to diving generally, I wish to reassure you that I (dare I say "we"?) new folks get it regarding the safety issues mentioned here. Since many participants in this and other Scubaboard threads seem understandably concerned about newbies' takeaways regarding safety, I think you all can rest a bit easy, or at least easier, on that one.

"Unknowns"; "exceeding thirds"; "trust me" = bad. I am not being flip but rather simply saying that without a technical bone in my bod, I comprehended this easily. I think that if a poster cops to a mistake, or series of mistakes, that should suffice. Subsequent posts could then focus on the OP's original question(s). If a poster appears to be unaware of a safety issue, I would think one person politely addressing that issue would be adequate, perhaps even optimal. Then, discussion could be turned back to the OP's original questions.

Scubaboard is a fantastic resource. However, I would hate to see people shy away from sharing the unvarnished truth. We need this courage and honesty in order to continue to learn.