Badly fitting BCD/New diver figuring out what questions to ask

[James79]

I was getting a bit of "that's for seasoned tech divers" from a couple of people so it helps to know I'm not nuts to consider BPW,

This one always gives me a chuckle. It usually comes from 2 sources... people who have something to sell you (profit margin, short and long term, is higher on "normal" BCDs vs BPW), or people who are confused by a false equivalency. There are nearly no "recreational" BCD's that are suitable for any kind of tech diving, so tech divers pretty exclusively use BPW. That doesn't make BPW unsuitable for recreational diving. It's kind of like if someone told you that a top crash rated motorcycle helmet is "only for seasoned riders"..... just because it is a superior product doesn't mean it's only for more extreme conditions.
Now, to be fair, there are some drawbacks to BPW. One is just that not everything is for everyone.... My boys and I love BPW, my wife hates back inflate of any kind and uses a vest type BCD (not a drawback per se, but a counterpoint to how many on SB love BPW to the exclusion of all else). Another is that at it's basic form, they have no pockets.... this can be addressed in a number of ways, though, if you want pockets. I wear pocket shorts in warm water, and my full suit has thigh pockets. Another option is adding pockets to the harness (multiple vendors make regular pockets and ditch-able weight pockets that you can add). Final option is evaluating if you even need or want pockets!

Best,

James

 

[melaniem]

There isn’t much of a curve since you haven’t formed years of habit. The majority of the difference is handled out of the water, getting it adjusted so it does what you need it to in the water, there are several types of harness available from super simple to types that pretty much fit and feel just like a b/c.

the hydros is a very good b/c without a lot of floaty padding, it could serve you well for years, a bp/w can also do that.

Hey Lex, What do you use when you're traveling? Do you switch out your steel backplate for aluminum?

 

[lexvil]

Hey Lex, What do you use when you're traveling? Do you switch out your steel backplate for aluminum?

I change up every few trips, at the moment I have an Aqua lung outlaw, great for very light weight small bag stuff

but I’ve given in to the urge to not lug everything around so my last trip I just took my S Tek SS plate in a checked bag, it was nice not needing much additional lead.

 

[Gelirfella]

I’m also a new learner and elected to get a BPW at the urging of a friend who is an experienced diver. However, I went to my LDS and told them I am interested in tech diving so they were immediately keyed into the thought that I would need a BPW. They linked me up with their most experienced tech instructor who made recs on a setup. My impression was that most of the staff just aren’t familiar with them.

For what it’s worth our other buddy who is a vacation diver bought a jacket style initially and within 10 dives regretted it and now wishes he had a BPW.

I suspect it’s hard to get it wrong with a BPW unless you try to get a harness that is more complex than a single piece of webbing with a crotch strap. There’s some selection with the wing but lots of good options and again probably hard to go wrong. You’ll need a single tank adapter most likely and those can be variable I gather. But from what I’ve seen it seems like when getting gear early on the reg is probably the key piece to get right. It was interesting when I posted about my setup on a different site. Many of the most experienced (seeming) divers basically responded to nothing but the reg choice, which makes a certain degree of sense. Again lots of good choices and a lot of products out there that are widely vetted.

 

[Celt]

I love to read you have to use a backplate and wing for tech diving. It almost guarantees a constant supply of cheap jackets. Bought this for 50 euros and put in a few stitches to suit myself. Tried it yesterday at 45m with a 15ltr. of air and slung 7ltr 50% works a treat.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I’m also a new learner and elected to get a BPW at the urging of a friend who is an experienced diver. However, I went to my LDS and told them I am interested in tech diving so they were immediately keyed into the thought that I would need a BPW. They linked me up with their most experienced tech instructor who made recs on a setup. My impression was that most of the staff just aren’t familiar with them.

For what it’s worth our other buddy who is a vacation diver bought a jacket style initially and within 10 dives regretted it and now wishes he had a BPW.

I suspect it’s hard to get it wrong with a BPW unless you try to get a harness that is more complex than a single piece of webbing with a crotch strap. There’s some selection with the wing but lots of good options and again probably hard to go wrong. You’ll need a single tank adapter most likely and those can be variable I gather. But from what I’ve seen it seems like when getting gear early on the reg is probably the key piece to get right. It was interesting when I posted about my setup on a different site. Many of the most experienced (seeming) divers basically responded to nothing but the reg choice, which makes a certain degree of sense. Again lots of good choices and a lot of products out there that are widely vetted.

Regs are actually pretty hard not to get right. All of them will supply air at any recreational depth just fine. Maybe the second stage and different hose lengths and routing configurations make to biggest difference, but any brand will due.
The BCD and fins are actually some of the most noticeable pieces of gear that make the biggest difference. I sounds like you have pretty much nailed the whole BP/W concept very well. The whole premise behind BP/W is simplicity, they are supposed to be anti clutter and anti gimmickry. They are very simple and durable, nothing can really go wrong with the plate and harness. A high quality wing will last for years and has an internal bladder that can be user repaired if needed.
Unfortunately some of the BP/W companies have begun to over complicate their systems and they’re beginning to leak into the “other” world of jacket convolution.
But the majority are still true to their origins.

 

[jowe]

I’m also a new learner and elected to get a BPW at the urging of a friend who is an experienced diver. However, I went to my LDS and told them I am interested in tech diving so they were immediately keyed into the thought that I would need a BPW. They linked me up with their most experienced tech instructor who made recs on a setup. My impression was that most of the staff just aren’t familiar with them...

Thanks Gelirfella - this is really helpful. I currently know very few local divers (one is just embarking on BPW) and the LDS I certified through is not BPW friendly. However there are other shops, so I should pay them a visit.

As for regs a Scubapro MK25 was suggested to me by a diver friend as it can be serviced pretty much anywhere. The shop suggested Air2, but I'm not so sure. It was also suggested to me I have the system where I donate my primary and have secondary clipped by my neck to grab. The 2 instructors I've seen also have the latter system...

 

[Gelirfella]

Thanks Gelirfella - this is really helpful. I currently know very few local divers (one is just embarking on BPW) and the LDS I certified through is not BPW friendly. However there are other shops, so I should pay them a visit.

As for regs a Scubapro MK25 was suggested to me by a diver friend as it can be serviced pretty much anywhere. The shop suggested Air2, but I'm not so sure. It was also suggested to me I have the system where I donate my primary and have secondary clipped by my neck to grab. The 2 instructors I've seen also have the latter system...

I like having an experienced technical diver to talk about the gear with. We've had multiple conversations outside of training about diving. I definitely paid a premium for my gear through my LDS as it is all SP stuff. Pros and cons. I got a bunch of "free" training which equates to meaningful savings for me. And I am also now ingratiated to the shop to some extent. With this shop at least, buying from them does lead them to welcome you into the fold. Probably partially because they want you to be happy and partially because they realize you are someone who will spend more money with them in the future. I cannot say if that is true of all shops. I suspect not. That said, if the guy giving you advice is affiliated with a shop they will pitch the gear their shop sells. That's why I've got all SP gear. There are pluses and minuses to that. Ultimately for me it worked.

A "not BPW friendly" shop sounds like one with either nothing but the bottom line in mind (all shops have a bottom line in mind if they want to succeed but some seem to attempt to include some desire to have truly satisfied customers) or one without any advanced divers around.

I got a MK25/G260 combo. It's well vetted. But lots of other good choices that are cheaper and you'll find plenty of people on here who would recommend those options over the MK25. If price isn't an issue SP regs seem to have a really long and strong track record. Weird for a shop to suggest Air2 but not be BPW friendly unless Air2 is expensive. Primary donation seems to be the recommendation of most experienced divers and it makes a lot of practical sense. If the other guy needs air give him the easiest reg to find and the one you know works (which is the one in your mouth) then while he's enjoying breathing you can find your alternate air. I personally like the idea of an octo for now, but can see value in an Air2 as a third redundant system. Suspect there are lots of opinions on that and I am not knowledgeable enough to know. None of this is advice. It's just my experience since we're in a similar spot. That said, I am full tilt headed for technical diving right now. I know that's where I want to end up. Goal is to be diving doubles (safely) this time next year.

 

[jowe]

I like having an experienced technical diver to talk about the gear with. We've had multiple conversations outside of training about diving.

That sounds perfect - I would really appreciate someone like that. However I'm lucky that my local diver friend who's been diving regularly for years on back inflate and is heading to BPW is being super helpful, and trying to spare me from the more expensive mistakes.

It's just my experience since we're in a similar spot. That said, I am full tilt headed for technical diving right now. I know that's where I want to end up. Goal is to be diving doubles (safely) this time next year.

It's so nice to talk to someone who's just down the road from me in terms of experience. And I love your goal! I know you're going to hit it square on My first goal is to be very controlled in the water. I want to look not touch for the most part. I'm not so much into caves and wrecks (though submerged cities/buildings are very compelling). Marine conservation, a lot of local diving and also travel/experiencing a range of places, creatures and conditions (also safely!) is my thing.

 

[jowe]

Because you're dying to know (ha!). I went with a Halcyon Eclipse 30 BP/W -steel & standard one piece webbing.

Took a little bit to get all my gear together and adjusted so I could go in the water, but hit Breakwater this morning for a test dive. Even before getting weight and trim better balanced it was AWESOME. Oh my, night and day different. I can't believe how good it felt.

So I wanted to thank you all for the conversation here, that plus help and advice from local divers and the shop really helped. I'm not sure I could be any happier... unless I was in the ocean again, of course!