Can some explain to me what PPO2 is?

[DeepScuba]

Amonton!!!

I thought he was talking about Chinese soup!!!

heheh, well it's nice info and all, but hardly very useful for OW to 60ft.

They really have their hands full just diving. Abusing thier minds with next to useless info AT THAT POINT OF TIME IN THEIR DIVING is exactly why some "newbs" have a hard time remembering the important theory as it pertains to Basic OW......tables etc.

You're right, some things are not required, necessary or desired.

I truly have no idea of the specifics of Amonton (I did learn it, but it was so irrelevant in REALITY, my short term memory doesn't retain fairly useless data) beyond that it's not a REAL issue to any diving you do.

Yes I would love to impress my friends, divers and non, of my wit and deep understanding of all that is Amonton, but alas it would be Cliff Claven material. (Cheers).

Good at parties though.


It impresses the "newbs". Makes them think you know what you're doing!


Gone for Wonton.........

DS

 

[DeepScuba]

911 Abuser:

Using EAN32 and EAD of 90ft

A scan of several tables (No deco, Mod USN, Buhlmann Sea level, DCIEM) gives from 20 to 25 minutes NDL.

 

[Spectre]

The 110' is in the sand, so I doubt that you will be spending much if any time at that depth as most of your dive time will be on the deck, which is at a higher depth.

Depends on how your planning it. Typical tables'll end up being 110. I stuck to the deck and maxed at 102.

 

[timhernandez]

I was taught PP02 and Dalton, Boyle, the effects of water on light, sound,etc. in my open water class in 2002.
It was an SDI class and the instructor did a very good job teaching this material and, making sure his students 'got it'.

We also learned, and practiced buddy breathing in both open and closed environments along with many other skills (like trim and bouyancy,etc).

After lurking and reading these boards for awhile, and seeing, hearing other talk about their training and experieces, I am very pleased with the training my son and I got from SDI.

-Tim

 

[truva]

Only having attended the YMCA OW class, I have a couple of things I’d like to add here.

They did indeed cover oxygen toxicity, nitrogen narcosis and went over some of the other gas mixes and why you’d choose to use one or the other. In my opinion if you are not letting students know this to some level you are doing them no service.

What that YMCA class gave me was information I needed to learn how to dive safely. I knew the things I needed to work on and I knew what I didn’t know, I cannot stress the safety factor in that. You are not going to make a competent diver in any short class like that but you can supply someone with enough information and knowledge to go out and become one.

I see where several folks mention 60 feet, what does 60 feet have to do with OW?

Truva

 

[RiverRat]

I'd like to comment here, just my 2 cents....
I'm actually glad I decided to go the OW directly to AOW/Nitrox route with training.
I could almost recommend the Nitrox class to new divers even if they don't plan on diving it right away. It really opened up my eyes to what goes on with our bodies and different (air) gas mixes at depth. For my first dives outside of training dives I booked a trip to G. Cayman. Even though I did a "deep" dive to 60fsw in AOW training one could argue that I should not have been doing 100fsw profiles out in Cayman but that's how they dive out there and that's what I dove. I was impressed however when a buddy team with us set their limit to 60fsw. They weren't comfortable diving that deep and chose to stay at 60. I had a great buddy out there and did feel comfortable, so I chose to go deep. I learned alot about diving on that trip. I'm still pumped about those dives. I guess what I'm trying to say is that for some divers too much info right away may not be good, but for others it may be best to dig right in and go for it. The dive profiles out there took me right to the edge of my MOD on EANx32. Trust me, I had my alarms set on my Vyper. May have annoyed some divers but kept me alert on the deep dives. Now if I was only diving air the MOD would not have been as critical but being as we were diving on walls with essentially "no bottom" it was nice have some of this more advanced training in my head in case of an unforseen disaster.

 

[perpet1]

Because know it alls have to criticize the agencies. They refuse to acknowledge that basic OW divers:

f) many just want to go have a fun time and not play arm chair OWSI on the internet

Well a lot of the OWSI's are really OWSI's and know the true requirements. I am sure Walter is an incredible Instructor and I would like to take a class from him someday because he seems to really care.

The general discussion as I see it is, is the idea of PPO2 (daltons pressure law) required knowledge for open water students.

Walter thinks it is and that is fine because there is nothing wrong with presenting extra info during a class. I assure you that most divers, for the other reasons you sited and because it is not required in most Open Water standards, do not think PPO2 is required knowledge of an open water student.

Now this is going to raise some issues because there are those that believe that somone should be all knowing prior to setting foot in the water and that the masses are clueless and have no business diving. I just say to them that even they did not know a fraction of what they know today when they started and everyone has to start someplace.

 

[Groundhog246]

Even though I did a "deep" dive to 60fsw in AOW training one could argue that I should not have been doing 100fsw profiles out in Cayman but that's how they dive out there and that's what I dove.

Not sure how they call 60fsw a "deep" dive. We did 55ffw in our OW certifying dives. Did just shy of 100ffw in AOW. Plan called for getting you deep enough to be narced and skills to let you understand you were narced. No way you got that "lesson" at 60 feet. My LDS also wants you to do 15 to 20 post OW dives and get your buoyancy skills established, before you do AOW. It's hard to do a good compass course if you're still trying to get properly neutral, not to mention the task loading of a night dive.

 

[Walter]

It's all about what is really necessary to dive safely. There are differing opinions on this and it probably always will be this way. It's possible to cut even more from courses and still allow people to dive safely under perfect conditions. Since I can't promise conditions will always be perfect, I'd rather err on the side of caution and provide more knowledge and skills so my divers will be better prepared for the unexpected.

You could get by under perfect conditions by teaching them to never hold their breath, dive no deeper than 30 feet, use air only, clear a small amount of water from their masks, use a flutter kick (don't worry about technique), ascend no faster than 1 ft every 2 seconds, how to come close to neutral buoyancy by adding and venting air to their BC and start to the surface with at least 300 PSI. I can teach that class in 15 - 30 minutes. As long as nothing ever goes wrong and they stay within the limits, I've set, they'll be fine.

 

[Walter]

"Did just shy of 100ffw in AOW. Plan called for getting you deep enough to be narced and skills to let you understand you were narced. No way you got that "lesson" at 60 feet."

Actually, a recent study by the Naval Medical Institute in Croatia showed impaired psychomotor testing not only at the generally accepted depth of 4 bars (~99 ft), but also at 2 & 3 bars. The order in which the dives were performed made no difference.