CESA - why? I'll never run low on air!

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

jhbryaniv:
So you are saying that someone has a major incident at depth you will continue the dive? or you will surface?
Nah, what he's saying is that he's never had debilitating pain, and never come close to bleeding to death. Those of us who have, understand both circumstances. If he lives long enough he will understand too.
In the meantime, he'll continue to be "young and immortal" as we all were, once upon a time, and continue to feel that those of us who do contemplate those things are wasting our time on "jokes."
Rick :)
 
I think the term ESA, swim ESA, and CESA are misunderstood, and missused.

The focus should be on preventing the reflexive action of the larynx - specifically - laryngeal spasm.

As people have mentioned before - chemical irritation, vomitus, or even swallowing of water can trigger this reflex.

The skill which I think many of us think of is the "humming", "aaaaaaa'ing", or whistling that forces the epiglottis to remain open, or blocking larygospasm.

Even a technical diver, if his rebreather canister break, can get toxic irritating gas in his larynx.... and if there is any controlled, or uncontrolled ascent - laryngospasm can cause lung barotrauma.

From this perspective, it is at least good to talk about this reflex, and how to overcome it.
 
PerroneFord:
Those who view CESA as viable, always will. Those who don't, never will. And never shall the two meet! :)
And then there are those that recognize there are situations where a CESA is viable and will work, and there are situations where CESA is not viable and will kill you.


There are probably many divers out there that don't really have a feel for situations for which a CESA is a acceptable response.
Having a couple of minutes of deco obligation on a Suunto computer doesn't mean that a rapid ascent to the surface is going to kill you. If it did, then we would have had a lot more fatalities when people were using the USN tables with its longer NDLs and 60fpm direct ascent to the surface.

Charlie Allen
 
Ran across this thread.....(maybe viewpoints on CESA have changed in 4 or so years, DIR??? maybe)......Guys we're making a mountain out of a mole hill...It's a skill, one I keep in my little black bag of tricks, one that might save my life one day(it helped my wife long a go from about 40'...lol, she decided to do a ESA rather than buddy breath with me- maybe she knew my skill levels....lol)....http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=32607..
 
PerroneFord:
... Heart attack, I don't know. Never had one. Do you stop breathing? ...
The most common symptom of a heart attack is sudden death. If you get lucky enough to not have that one, then your clock is ticking. You have little time to mess around, and you'll be in extreme severe pain. You need help. You need to be on the surface, on the boat.
My point is simply this: running out of gas is not the only circumstance that puts you in a situation where your time of useful consciousness is very limited. There are other circumstances that can do that, and an ability to make a controlled, emergency ascent without killing yourself - without reverting to the natural tendency to hold your breath underwater - must be so ingrained that it is automatic and overcomes instinct.
'Course you could look at it like "oh, well, if any of those things happen to me I'm dead anyway, so why bother..." To some extent those of us who go into caves or substantial deco obligations - where a CESA isn't an option - have to accept that, but during any dive (or part of the dive) when a CESA is a viable option, it needs to be there.
Me, I'll keep the CESA in my bag of tricks, and take the time to equip my students with it as well.
Rick
 
my question remains - about ascent rate. "CESA" is to be conducted at a "normal ascent rate" - if it's faster than that, I would call it a buoyant emergency ascent, or something other than a CESA... if you're ascending at a normal rate, and you have air, why not breathe while ascending? If you're ascending more quickly, then why call it a CESA? Maybe it's just a difference in terminology among agencies?

kari
 
I imagine, if you are only 15 ft from the surface, you'd want to stay as close to 60 ft per minute, so you are still obeying your NDL criterias.

If you are 30 ft from the surface, my guess is, more most recreational divers, we are going to exceed 60 ft/min and might get the bends if we are at the yellow zone or near our NDL.

If you are 60 ft from the surface, I am definitely going to dump my weight, and shoot to the surface faster.... I know that there are many folks here who can do without a breath for 2 or 3 minutes.... But not me. I will take a chance of DCS, but rather have that than larygospasm and a lung blow out.

Second reason why you would want to dump weight, is swimming ESA will burn calories, producing carbon dioxide, and you would not want to induce a breathing reflex too early before you reach the surface. Remaining relatively motionless with a buoyant ESA would allow you to go longer without a breath... and less likely to gasp water, and suffer a larygospasm.
 
Rick Murchison:
My point is simply this: running out of gas is not the only circumstance that puts you in a situation where your time of useful consciousness is very limited.

I think this is really the crux of the matter. Getting to the surface because of poor planning, is obviously not a good thing. Getting out of the water quickly because of a medical emergency, is something different entirely.

However, I have not yet heard anyone in this argument (besides you) to date, mention ANY other reason for CESA than running out of gas. I will continue to assert that doing a CESA because of poor gas planning is a recipe for disaster. Doing a rapid ascent (call it ESA, CESA, or whatever) may in fact be prudent to save your life at some point. I don't think anyone would disagree with that.
 
I am gonna pick on all of you because people keep confusing terms and meaning. OK, for the definitions:

1) CESA - Controlled Emergency Swimming Ascent - as taught in PADI. This is where you exhale continuosly to the surface maintaing neutral buoyancy. You do not inhale.

2) ESA - Emergency Swimming Ascent - Essentially the same as a CESA but you have air to breathe - so you breathe it. This could be your air or an air share

3) Bouyant Ascent - this is basically the I must get to the surface and I may not be able to do it myself mentality. This is only marginally controlled and may or may not be done with air or while breathing. Very much the last ditch effort

Everything Rick posted above is for ESA or Buoyant ascents simply because you have gas.
 
You missed one word...
in_cavediver:
I am gonna pick on all of you because people keep confusing terms and meaning. OK, for the definitions:

1) CESA - Controlled Emergency Swimming Ascent - as taught in PADI.
 

Back
Top Bottom