CESA - why? I'll never run low on air!

[limeyx]

There have been a couple of threads on the CESA lately, with several folks declaring it an unnecessary skill, because with "proper" diving skills you'd never need it.

Here are just two of many examples (I ain't pickin' on you two; y'all just said it clearer and in fewer words than the others )
Rick

IMO none of those cases require a CESA.

CESA is when you have NO GAS. The only real reason(s) to have no gas in single-tank recreational diving is

1) you and your entire team all run out of gas (or really low) at the same time (gas planning, violating the plan)
2) you run out of gas and your buddy is nowhere to be found
3) you both have a catastrophic tank failure at the same time that drains both your tanks.
4) you have some kind of "event" tox/pass out/medical emergency/panic that requires an immediate ascent. here, you still can do a 30 fpm ascent because your buddy will be there to help you, and he has gas, right? and he can have a reg ready for if you become able to take a reg.

I dont see a need to do a CESA for basically exactly the reasons lamont suggests.

of course, if 99% of your diving is with instabuddies who dont follow good procedures then

1) dont dive with them
2) get redundancy (doubles)

 

[limeyx]

I've been "banned" from technical diving because I felt that there is still a place for CESA... Oh, well, not going to miss it.

there is no room for a CESA in tech diving (or should there be in rec diving)

In tech diving you can solve 99% of problems underwater. The other 1% you may have to surface early and blow off deco, but definitely not do a CESA unless you have a suicidal dive plan.

 

[Rick Murchison]

Again, running out of air is preventable in nearly all circumstances. I believe that is all the "don't do CESA" camp is putting forth.

Sorta throwing out the baby with the bathwater, eh?
By all means never run out of gas. Never.
There are other reasons you may need to do a CESA.
Rick

 

[Rick Murchison]

there is no room for a CESA in tech diving (or should there be in rec diving)

I disagree. See post 1.
Rick

 

[Rick Murchison]

CESA is when you have NO GAS.

Not in this thread. I defined it in post #1. If you want to argue the definition then that's another issue entirely.
This thread is about Controlled Emergency Swimming Ascents with gas.

Rick

 

[PerroneFord]

Sorta throwing out the baby with the bathwater, eh?
By all means never run out of gas. Never.
There are other reasons you may need to do a CESA.
Rick

No, By your definition of CESA, which includes making a rapid ascent WITH GAS, then I agree with your statements.

There are emergencies underwater. Running out of gas shouldn't be one of them.

 

[limeyx]

I disagree. See post 1.
Rick

I just saw your post clarifying what you meant by CESA -- in that you still have gas.

And in that case, I agree -- there is a place in rec and tec diving to ascend more rapidly than you had planned in certain emergency cases.

However, this still needs to be within "safe" parameters (i.e. 30fpm for rec dives, and for tec dives it will depend on circumstances more). Also, this should be minimized to the greatest extent possible (training, planning, diving with buddies you trust) and should be an extremely rare event.

of course, there is a possibility that the worst will happen (the entire team goes out of gas, or has a heart attack at the same time), then you are on "OMG" deco (Oh my god deco) and you do what you have to do to survive.

However, this does not fit the definition of CESA that I learned or practiced during PADI Open water classes.

In fact, this type of ascent was not taught at all specifically since it's just a regular ascent but minus the "safety stop" (although if someone looks like they are really dying, and there's a chance to save them, then I can see ascending faster than 30fpm in some cases)

 

[eric229]

I see two different issues in this thread. One is you should never have to do a CESA and the other is that you should not teach CESA to new divers.

I can still remember my PADI open water course and I can tell you that my instructor tought us that we should plan on having that last 500 PSI in our tank as a reserve and that we should always know how much air is left in our tank. They also tought us to use the buddy system and that in case of an OOA emergency our buddy is our redundand air source. CESA was only presented as a last ditch attempt to save your life. So even PADI OW agrees that you should never have to do a CESA and that, if you do, it is because you are having a life threating accident that shouldn't have happened if you followed your training.

Teaching CESA, even though you should never use it, is important because it also teaches the students to always keep their airway open by making a buzzing sound. This is counterintuitive to non divers and is an important part of their diving education. If they panic underwater, their first reaction is going to be to hold their breath and bolt for the surface, which is going to give them a life threating injury. Teaching CESA and doing a practice CESA demonstrates to new divers that they don't have to hold their breath to make it to the surface. I can still remember doing my CESA from 30' as part of my OW checkout dive. I thought it was amazing that, not only could I make it to the surface doing a slow and controled ascent, but I could do it comfortably.

Even a PADI OW diver following thier training should never have to CESA. New divers benifit form learning about CESA and practing a CESA, even if it is just to demonstrate that they can ascend while breathing out. It gives them the confidence that they can make it to the surface from rec depths that will help hold off panic and a possible lifethreating breathhold ascent should they ever have an accident.

 

[Rick Murchison]

I just saw your post clarifying what you meant by CESA -- in that you still have gas.

And in that case, I agree -- there is a place in rec and tec diving to ascend more rapidly than you had planned in certain emergency cases.

However, this still needs to be within "safe" parameters (i.e. 30fpm for rec dives, and for tec dives it will depend on circumstances more). Also, this should be minimized to the greatest extent possible (training, planning, diving with buddies you trust) and should be an extremely rare event.

of course, there is a possibility that the worst will happen (the entire team goes out of gas, or has a heart attack at the same time), then you are on "OMG" deco (Oh my god deco) and you do what you have to do to survive.

However, this does not fit the definition of CESA that I learned or practiced during PADI Open water classes.

In fact, this type of ascent was not taught at all specifically since it's just a regular ascent but minus the "safety stop" (although if someone looks like they are really dying, and there's a chance to save them, then I can see ascending faster than 30fpm in some cases)

You're on a site with the crewed boat anchored above.
You are at 100'
You've been there for 20 minutes.
You have plenty of gas.
Your team is nearby.
You have an injury. (this is a single, unforeseeable event - not a "poor planning" event or a "chain of events")
You have 60 seconds of useful consciousness.
What's your plan.
Mine's a CESA, on the surface with 10 seconds to say "help."
Rick

 

[jefffalcone]

Great post Eric. I think everyone agrees that you should never have to do a CESA. But is this a reason not to teach it? The simple fact is that people do screw up and find themselves in situations that they shouldn't be in. Anyone who has had to do a cesa might be dead if they didn't know how. If instructors stop teaching it, there will be injuries as a result.