Considering a used reg. Which should I *not* consider?

[Eric Sedletzky]

Well I stand corrected about Poseidon. From what you guys are telling me parts and service can be had very easily. That was not the case a few years ago at least in my area. That was one reason I decided not to go with Poseidon even though I was in love with them.
There were no dealers and nobody had parts or would service them. Maybe it's a regional thing?
I'm not big on sending my stuff somewhere that I don't know who where what..
I either like to walk my stuff in through a door or do it myself, preferably the latter.
But the fact remains, they are fantastic regs.

 

[tadawson]

There may have been a brief period while the US distributor was in transition that may have been a bit slow, but that was about it . . . .

But then again, it's not like folks on web sites have ever blown a minor issue out of proportion . .

- Tim

 

[wavetrain75]

Would the Aquarius be a good reg to learn (practice) on until I get my reg certification? I like taking old stuff other people don't want and making it work. I'm kind of looking for a 1st/2nd combo I can pick up cheap a play with in the garage. But I'd like one that I can use at least as a backup or pool reg when I'm done. Do they have at least 1 hp and 3 lp ports?

 

[LeadTurn_SD]

Would the Aquarius be a good reg to learn (practice) on until I get my reg certification? I like taking old stuff other people don't want and making it work. I'm kind of looking for a 1st/2nd combo I can pick up cheap a play with in the garage. But I'd like one that I can use at least as a backup or pool reg when I'm done. Do they have at least 1 hp and 3 lp ports?

I'd look for a Conshelf XIV or later, Scubapro Mk5 or Mk10 on ebay. They often sell for $35 - $85 or so, parts are available, easy to service, lots of folks here on this board can help answer questions, but mainly: They are FIRST RATE regulators, and you would be hard pressed to find any brand new regs, at any price, that are significantly better.

Best wishes.

Edit: I have fond memories of the Aquarius (the regulator I learned to dive with in the 1970's) and the old Calyspo J, (the first reg I owned). But they were not top-end regs even back then; so even though I get nostalgic when I see them auctioned on ebay, I don't feel a strong urge to own one again. Shoot for a little higher-end old reg, such as the ones I mentioned.

 

[herman]

There are a couple of advantages to the Aquarius as a first repair reg. They are cheap, simple, very low part count, adjustable and with the exception of the filter, all the parts you will need for the first stage are standard Orings or you can make them yourself. The second stage is simple and the main part that is likely to need replacing can be home made.
If I remember correctly, there are a couple of versions of the Aquarius, one with 2 lp and one with 3. Since this is a learning/pool dive reg there is no need for more anyway...than again I have tanks with J valves, properly weight and know how to buddy breath, all I really need is one second stage.
The Conshelf is a really good reg, both from a service standpoint and as a solid diving reg. It is a little more difficult to service and has a larger parts count, some of which are not standard parts or can easily be home made. It would be my second step for a beginner after learning to serice flow by pistons. The Scubapro MK-2 is another great first reg to service and a dependable backup reg to boot.
As far as getting reg certified, that is not as easy as it may sound. It's not technically difficult- (hard to pass) but almost all manufs require you to be sponsored by a shop before you can get in the class. In addition, there is no generic overall cert but rather one for each brand so getting more than one if your shop does not carry that brand can be even more difficult.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

I'd look for a Conshelf XIV or later, Scubapro Mk5 or Mk10 on ebay. They often sell for $35 - $85 or so, parts are available, easy to service, lots of folks here on this board can help answer questions, but mainly: They are FIRST RATE regulators, and you would be hard pressed to find any brand new regs, at any price, that are significantly better.

I agree with you that a used higher end reg will offer top notch performance at a fraction of the price of a new high end reg, and for a bit less money than a new low end reg.

However be careful with e-bay purchases. What you often get is an unserviced reg that needs service and may need parts that are no longer available. And even if it just needs service, that annual service can cost another $100-$130.

And in my experience, e-bay bidding can over inflate the selling price of a reg, especialyl when bidders don't really understand what they are getting in to. I used to buy Scubapro regs off e-bay and then clean and rebuild them and then sell them as great performing freshly serviced regs. The problem is that the price of a unserviced scubapro reg in decent condition has gotten out of hand on e-bay, and by the time I buy it, clean it, update it and service it, I can't find a buyer as they all what a "cheap" e-bay reg. In some cases I get would be buyers coming back and asking me if I'd service their "cheap" e-bay reg, and the sad part is that by the time they have it shipped to them, re-ship it to me and pay for the service and return shipping, they end up spending a lot more than I was asking for mine in the first place.

Which is to say I am pretty much out of the buying used regs to refurbish business, and just service the "cheap" regs people buy off e-bay.

I do have a couple Mk 15 first stages left (1 near mint, the other in very good condition), along with a few D400s, a couple R109s in good condition, a couple late production Mk 3s and 1 or 2 late production Mk 5s in very good condition (1 may be sold, I'm waiting for a money order to arrive.) so if someone is looking for a reconditioned SP reg I still have a few.

----

I agree completely with the assessment of the SR1. The piston and seat arrangement in the first stage is unneccesarily complex, fragile, and time consuming to service. It also has a very creepy lock up unless you lubricate the bejeezus out of it and even then it has a very poor record of reliability. The design also uses a pressure transmitter arrangement that is poorly thought out and the dry ambient chamber system is very sherwood, but far less than optimum. It is the worst first stage design I have seen in 25 years of messing around with regs.

The second stage is equally poor in that it takes a more or less standard Aqualung/Apeks/Zeagle/Dive Rite air barrel/poppet design (which is itself already a slightly more complicated knock off of the G250 design) and absolutely complicates the hell out of it with a wackadoo adjustment system. It's a real PITA to service and adds lots of opportunities for potential failure.

 

[Lead_carrier]

(snip) all the parts you will need for the first stage are standard Orings or you can make them yourself. The second stage is simple and the main part that is likely to need replacing can be home made.
If I remember correctly, there are a couple of versions of the Aquarius, one with 2 lp and one with 3. Since this is a learning/pool dive reg there is no need for more anyway...than again I have tanks with J valves, properly weight and know how to buddy breath, all I really need is one second stage.
The Conshelf is a really good reg, both from a service standpoint and as a solid diving reg. It is a little more difficult to service and has a larger parts count, some of which are not standard parts or can easily be home made. It would be my second step for a beginner after learning to serice flow by pistons. The Scubapro MK-2 is another great first reg to service and a dependable backup reg to boot.
As far as getting reg certified, that is not as easy as it may sound. It's not technically difficult- (hard to pass) but almost all manufs require you to be sponsored by a shop before you can get in the class. In addition, there is no generic overall cert but rather one for each brand so getting more than one if your shop does not carry that brand can be even more difficult.

Ok Herman, you got me hooked, what is the best way to go about learing to make o'rings. There are a number of diameters, thicknesses and hardnesses that you have to be knowledgeable about. While servicing a reg is not rocket science cutting an o'ring out of an inner tube won't really fix that many leaks in my personal opinion. Telling someone to learn to service their own reg is excellent advice but telling them they can make their own o'rings and parts is a bit over the top IMHO. At least that has been my experience.

 

[herman]

You misunderstood my comment- let me try again- ....all the parts are either standard Orings or parts you can make yourself like simple HP seats. Those I can teach you how to make.

 

[Lead_carrier]

Making some HP seats and LP seats I'll agree with. Been there done that. I was hoping that maybe you'd found a trick that I hadn't.

 

[Blue Sparkle]

What about Zeagle, Subgear and Genesis?

I am a sample size of one, so not statistically relevant. On the other hand, I can still tell you my experience. I bought a used Zeagle Flathead VI, last summer, and I've been very happy with it.

In my case I was about to make a two-week dive trip and had just bought a BC and been given a computer. So I was looking at just a regulator to rent (plus tanks/weights). I was on a budget but figured that if I could get my own, good regulator for something near the cost of rental, then I could easily justify it to myself, plus have the pleasure of diving my own gear.

The trip was planned only a couple of weeks in advance, so I did not have tons of shopping leisure, and I narrowed it down to two choices: A great deal on a new, "entry level" regulator; or the used Flathead (which was in south Florida and right on my way). Since I tend to prefer older/used higher-end things over middle/lower end new things (for the same cost) in other areas (cars, boats, etc.), I went for the Flathead.

It was in great condition, and had just been serviced. I've now made about 70 dives on it and I'm very happy with my choice. While not a super-knowledgeable buyer when I made my purchase, I did like the fact that the Zeagle was made in the US and that they readily sell parts and provide service manuals. It's a sealed diaphragm reg, so can be used in a variety of conditions - although I've dived only warm/clear water so far.

In regards to the free parts for original buyers of new regs: I did consider this, and I really thought hard about buying a new Flathead (which was on sale at the time as "last year's" model). I decided to go for the used regulator, because as far as I could tell it was in like-new condition, and at around $400 less than a new one (IIRC), I didn't think I would feel bad about paying for parts for future servicing. Also, I'm the type who would sit around and worry about that 1-year date (I don't do rebates for this same reason; I just find them stressful).

When it really came down to it though, I did not have the money right at that time for a new Flathead, so in reality it was between the used Flathead; the new "entry level" reg; or spending the money renting a reg for that trip (I had just bought a BC within the past week, so my dive gear budget was a bit tapped out!)

I've been really happy with the Flathead, but then I don't have a lot to compare it to (although I have dived my buddy's Atomic B2). It has the feel of sturdy quality, it was made in the US, I can easily get in touch with the Zeagles, and I know I can get parts for it easily. These things all make me happy.

Blue Sparkle

PS: One more thing I just thought of is hose routing. I do think I would like to try routing my hoses with one coming out of the bottom of the reg, but that is not an option on the Flathead. It MAY not even be preferable for my set-up, but it's something to think about.

PPS: I did also look at a new HOG reg, but they only come in DIN, I have up until now always rented tanks with yoke valves (south Florida), and I don't have head clearance for an adapter. I do have the option to have my Flathead changed over to DIN if I get my own tanks and use those valves; but I don't think the HOG can be changed over to yoke, except with an adapter (which adds depth to the whole valve/reg).