Dear DM's around the world...

[Peter69_56]

Bill,

I guess I cant speak for anyone else, but when I say "Each diver is responsible for their own safety", it means;

A diver should not be diving with the thought that they are going to be babysat all the way and the DM/guide will do everything for them and will totally protect them, thus the diver has no responsibility for their own safety. I believe a diver should think in the first instance that as they have the vested interest in their own safety they should do as much as they can to ensure their own safety in every aspect that they can. Gear up to scratch, knowledge of gear and skills (as much as they can) up to scratch. Now recognizing shortcomings or inexperience is part of that too, so if a diver says I have never dived in a current and drift dive, they are actually being responsible for their safety as they are telling the DM of a risk that they need to be aware of. Thus the DM can take extra care with regard to that issue. Thats what I mean, and NOT that each diver is on their own.

Now what really irks me is the following type of diver. Having been told they must carry an SMB in a certain location due to currents etc, they buy one. When asked if they have used it at all they say no. When being asked if they would like to have some free training or help in using one so they get experience, their response is " I have no intent on ever using it, I only bought it because I had to". I think that attitude is stupid, selfish and not in the divers best interest in being responsible for their own safety. If that diver, got caught in a current she would have had no way of setting it off at depth safely, and would probably be lost. Would the family then blame the DM for not doing their job?

That particular diver is (to quote me) the diver from hell. We went on 3 trips with her and I do not dive with her and have no intent to ever again. She is irresponsible and selfish, and the first to winge about bad DM, not getting help, not getting her way when she wants a certain location and the rest of the group dont, and when the rest of the group are having fun.

When I dive, I dive with the thought in my head that I am diving alone, thus I must be able to save myself. That there are a number of divers with me doesnt matter. In this way I only take risks to a point where I can save myself and not depend on another diver. That they are there and can help is then a bonus. I figure that if I dive with the attitude that my buddy IS my backup so all is well, I am always making an assumption my buddy will always be in reach, always prepared and will always save me. I think I would then be assuming too much. Thus if I am of the mind set I am diving alone (in relation to my safety) I will dive more conservative, plan better, ensure I have sufficient backup gear, and be more set on thinking ahead of the game.

 

[Peter69_56]

Yeah, I have to agree with this. Sometimes I have been odd man out in a group, and the DM will say "I'm your buddy". That is always a danger signal to me. They have way too much on their mind to be my buddy, indeed if they even know how to be what I consider to be a good buddy.

- Bill

Relating to general diving and not guiding groups;

This is always my worry and I dont like diving with unknown people. Sometimes you get no choice. Hence my attitude in mentally preparing with the thought, "I am diving alone and responsible for my own safety" Thus I am not depending on the other unknown diver. Subconsciously I know others are there but my 'A' plan is make preparations as if you are diving alone, then dive as if you are responsible for the group (without being obnoxious or in peoples face, just let people know you are there for help if needed). That way you minimise risks to you and also the group.

What I probably didnt state previously is that, in regard to the other diver/divers in my group, I am very conscious of diving with an attitude of being there for them if they need help. I usually always dive with twins, or a sling tank, simply as extra air for others, and not necessarily for me. If a diver makes it very clear I am intruding and that they want to do their own thing, I will discretely try and keep an eye on them regardless, because if something happens I would like to think I did all I could, but I will not smother them and spoil their dive. They are entitled to dive as they wish.

 

[billt4sf]

recognizing shortcomings or inexperience is part of that too, so if a diver says I have never dived in a current and drift dive, they are actually being responsible for their safety as they are telling the DM of a risk that they need to be aware of. Thus the DM can take extra care with regard to that issue. Thats what I mean, and NOT that each diver is on their own.

YES! Sometimes saying "no" or "I don't know" is the most important thing.

- Bill

 

[Peter69_56]

YES! Sometimes saying "no" or "I don't know" is the most important thing.

- Bill

Yes I totally agree. Its about helping yourself first, and that might be saying "I have a problem". Often new divers say nothing, but it often shows, and thats understandable with new divers. Thats why its important for forums like this to reinforce the message, "You are responsible for your own safety", meaning either do things to make yourself safe, or if you have issues, tell someone who can assist, give advice etc. Do not just expect the DM to realize and save you. Make an effort to be responsible for yourself. TELL THE DM!

Often its about picking a buddy who is in tune with you, rather than the so called generic "good buddy". Whats good for a photographer is not good for an explorer.

And I take your point about DM's. That's why I decided to become one, as I saw too many who were not good at it. I blame the 60 dives and you are a DM syndrome. I believe a diver having say 50 dives doesn't have the experience to be good at DM. Maybe 100 or so but more important is the variety of diving, not in Qld warm, clear water with little or no current.

For my Rescue cert we had to do it partially at San Remo. Anyone knowing the conditions there at the pier will tell you its always in a raging current except for a short period at the change of tide. If you can do it there and pass, you have had some good exposure to real life situations where it all goes to crap in a hurry.

 

[Diving Dubai]

Yes I totally agree. Its about helping yourself first, and that might be saying "I have a problem". Often new divers say nothing, but it often shows, and thats understandable with new divers. Thats why its important for forums like this to reinforce the message, "You are responsible for your own safety", meaning either do things to make yourself safe, or if you have issues, tell someone who can assist, give advice etc. Do not just expect the DM to realize and save you. Make an effort to be responsible for yourself. TELL THE DM!

Couldn't agree more.

On trips away, some of us are lucky to be diving with a buddy we know well, which is great. Others might be traveling solo and get paired with a buddy. That buddy might be a great buddy or not so great. At first you have nothing more to go on that their claimed cert and claimed number of dives. You don't really know how they are as divers until you've been in the water with them. This is where the DM/guide is there as a backstop.

Even if you're divign with a regular buddy, you may well have a situation that you've never experienced before. Being put through task loading or stressful situations in training (where you know you're safe) is a world away from the real thing. You might think (hope) that your training will kick in - but it might not. You won't know until it happens. Again the guide may hopefully have the experience as a backstop to assist.

Guiding commercially is a system set up for the majority of divers and it works for the majority. I started guiding commercially, not for the money but the challenge. When you step over to the other side of the fence, you realise things aren't as black and white as you first thought (and a far cry from the perfect world of the internet forum) You try to do the best you can with out compromising safety or your integrity. You won't please all the people all the time. While I'm there for everyone, my attention is given more to the less experienced than pandering to the ego's of those who think they're the greatest.

 

[Centrals]

A pre-dive briefing is a good acid test for the DM! A competent and experienced DM will deliver a detail and thorough
description on the dive and safety issue.
Never ever afraid or embarrass to ask any question. No question is stupid especially about your own life.
Some divers will always pick on the DM but never critically analyzed his/her short coming!!!

If you ever need a DM to bail you out then you have a problem!! Because he/she could be already occupied and your "buddy" is nowhere to be seen!
I remember IANTD dive motto:
Only you can dive, swim and think for yourself.

 

[admikar]

Should they? Any diver should be able to plan and conduct their dive without help from others than their buddy.

In some parts of the world (typically UK & rest of Northern Europe), the norm is independent buddy pairs/teams, each team plan their dive based on the site briefing and are obligated to surface within the time frame they give to the dive leader. The dive leader stays topside, counts heads, keeps track of whether or not the buddy teams surface on time, and, if they don't, call emergency services. A DM leading and babysitting a bunch of divers around the site is a completely alien concept, applicable only to warm-water resort diving.

It is the same concept we use in Adriatic sea (although under CMAS, I have no idea how other agencies operate).

To me, my buddy/teammate is my brother or sister. The DM and others are, at best, distant cousins whose actions are unpredictable. Sure, I would attempt to assist anyone in need, whether "related" to me or not, and I would hope DMs and others would do the same. Yes, I feel we are all part of a community. However, only my buddy and I are trained to act in a predictable way toward each other and actually anticipate helping each other. My buddy and I are each responsible for our own safety, and we don't "rely on" each other, but as people who seriously respect the buddy system we can expect each other to act in a predictable way. The DM is not my buddy (unless, of course, I am buddied with the DM).

+1
Disclaimer: this post is not about:"this agency is better than that agency, or I am better diver than you are", this post is about my experience and my opinion (whatever it's worth is). All of us are trained under CMAS. Some locations I've dived before, some were new.
Most of my diving was with a club. Every dive, we get buddies assigned, sometimes pairs, sometimes three divers in a "group", one P3 and two P2's (if I recognize it correctly, P3 is capable of DM, and P2 is AOW). Anyway, as we go down, we are independent pair/groups. Now, here is where differences come along regarding our obligations. If I dive with a P3, I am a follower, under constraints of our briefing. But, at any point, I can be asked to take a lead, regarding depth, NDL, navigation,you name it. It is not only to cover some problem my buddy/leader has, but to train me further(club development policy).
So, unless my DM is also my buddy, I will act (with my buddy), as I think is appropriate to whatever issue might arise, unless briefed otherwise.

 

[CJS]

How about each team hire their own guide and the DM stays on the boat where they can actually oversee all the divers? That way you get exactly what you want. To expect a guide or DM to meet the needs of a group of people is simply not realistic or fair to the DM/guide.

This is what we do. I want a guide who knows the site well enough to show me the cool stuff. I want to dive at my pace. Sometimes my wife doesn't want to dive and I have had some less than perfect experiences with insta-buddies. I pay more and get my own guide. Thankfully, most of our holiday diving is in places where that is a pretty cheap thing to do.

 

[charlier]

Jim - Hiring your own DM is not possible in SE Asia. LoB's in Indonesia, Thailand, PNG, and Malyasia provide their own DM's. The best LoB's try to group divers of similar experience and interest with a DM. Sometimes this is not possible, but really do try to do their best.

 

[CJS]

Jim - Hiring your own DM is not possible in SE Asia. LoB's in Indonesia, Thailand, PNG, and Malyasia provide their own DM's. The best LoB's try to group divers of similar experience and interest with a DM. Sometimes this is not possible, but really do try to do their best.

I just got off a Liveaboard in Thailand three weeks ago and we had arranged for a private guide (who ended up being a Spanish Dive Master who had dived the sites for four years). I have been to Thailand twice and always dived with my own guide; in the Anderman sea and also Koh Lanta. You just have to arrange it in advance and pay a little bit more.