Dive Operations enforcing rules

[WimW]

In Cayman Brac, a woman was the first to exit the water after a dive, followed by her husband. (She later told me that she had been the last to get in the water at the beginning of the dive as well.) The DM asked her for her computer. She didn't have one. He asked for her tables. She didn't have any. She said she shared her husband's computer. She was not allowed in the water again for 24 hours, and when she went back in she had a rented computer on her wrist.

I had the opposite happen to me... I discovered just after starting my descent that I had forgotten my computer (poor buddy check, I know, I know ). I signalled I had a a problem, and went back up. On surface, the DM asked me what was wrong. I told him I had forgotten my computer and was going to swim 10m back to the boat to put it on. The guy then tried to convince me to leave it and come back down immediately, as it was not necessary according to him...
I'm afraid that this is a lot more common than your story - while that's what should really be enforced.

 

[Searcaigh]

What I find really annoying is the dive op telling me that minimum surfacing pressure is 500psi and I tell them I am using bar so they say 50 bar, demonstrating clearly they have no idea what they are talking about.

Any dive op that insists the max time is less than 60 mins does not get my custom, obviously depending on the dive plan, but I prefer long slow shallow dives (10-20M) rather than short deep ones.

Locally I am driving for 2 hours to get to the dive op, I do not plan to spend less time under water than it took me to get there.

One rule I do like to see enforced is departure time on boats. If people cannot get their asses there on time (unless reasonable excuse like a puncture or similar) then they should miss the boat. A delay leaving means the dives are going to perhaps hit the wrong tide and will always mean a late return too. Driving back in my locality at night runs the risk of hitting some large animals weighing a ton that wander aimlessly onto the roads, and I have no intention of running that risk when I can avoid it.

 

[supergaijin]

Are you suggesting that qualified divers managing their own gas is unsafe?

No, I say that surfacing with a minimum reserve of air is being a safe and conscientious diver. The reserve is there for a purpose. That reserve may save your life or mine.


200psi?!! I fart more than that after a decent curry.

Or that solo diving by properly certified divers is unsafe?

No again, but I follow the local laws in this country which states clearly that solo diving is not allowed.

It sounds to me like you are running the beginners slope at the ski resort. Are there any dive operations in the Maldives that cater to experience divers?

Somehow I doubt that you'd be happy diving here with me. If you sign up for a normal 2-tank dive with me, the schedule is there for crew and me to return to the island to have lunch before going out again in the afternoon. If you were to rent your own boat, then you're free to make your own schedule as long as you abide by local law.

There are a few dedicated diving islands in the Maldives but the majority are Spa Resorts with the option for diving. I would suggest you would have a better time on a safari boat, however unfortunately they also run to a schedule. With a decent group of like-minded friends, you could probably get a good deal on a charter in low season and have a blast.

If you were looking to be island based, in the long run it'd be better to rent your own boat, and have a dry DM (another Maldivian law)

http://www.agoffice.gov.mv/pdf/subrege/Diving.pdf
Section 2: Supervision of Diving Activities
(1) All diving activities, both land and boat based, must be supervised by Dive Centre Staff either
directly or indirectly. If a Dive Centre Staff is found to be negligent in supervision, the Dive
Centre Staff and the Dive Centre will be subject to appropriate action as deemed fit by the
government authorities.

Diving is inherently so conservatively designed. Layer in ultra-conservative computers and even more conservative dive operators and you have a recipe that serves to get the operators home in time for lunch; not one that's customer experience oriented.

My friend a few months ago got a free ride to the chamber and then to Sri Lanka for a PFO check (negative) after 2 dives with an ultra-conservative computer. Another last year couldn't walk properly and found out he was bent in his ear- again nothing wrong on his computer.

Dive operators are conservative by nature as people do have accidents. I have been a diving instructor for 6 years or so. In that time I have been subjected to tens of thousands of dives. That number consists not only of my dives but those of my co-workers. We see accidents and we see 'unjustified' DCS.

FYI, the typical diving workday for DMs/Instrs 'livin the dream' is between 10 and 12 hrs. I expect my staff to have time for a decent lunch for their own safety and sanity, and of course to keep a smile on their face while they are trying their hardest to be "customer experience orientated".

For those divers- and there seems to be a large number of them in this thread- who do not want to dive with groups and thus be confined in to schedules etc., go private. Hire a boat, crew, tank and weights and have fun. Frankly for experienced divers I think this is the way to go.

 

[boulderjohn]

For those divers- and there seems to be a large number of them in this thread- who do not want to dive with groups and thus be confined in to schedules etc., go private. Hire a boat, crew, tank and weights and have fun. Frankly for experienced divers I think this is the way to go.

I agree with the need for a dive operator to run a schedule that keeps the operation in business. A dive boat is often scheduled to go out in the morning, return for lunch at roughly a certain time, and then go out in the afternoon at a certain time with a new group of divers. If the afternoon dive starts a half hour late because a diver insisted on using all the air in his tank on a shallow dive with his superb breath control, there will be a lot of very unhappy people. I understand that, and I return to the boat when I am directed to, regardless of my air supply. I knew the schedule when I signed up for the dive, and in doing so I agreed to follow it.

Now, different operators have different ways of dealing with this, and many can accommodate more advanced divers far better than others. If you are one of those advanced divers, the onus is on you to seek out the operator that best serves your needs before the trip begins rather than screw things up for everyone else because of your sense of self importance.

 

[redacted]

No, I say that surfacing with a minimum reserve of air is being a safe and conscientious diver. The reserve is there for a purpose. That reserve may save your life or mine.


200psi?!! I fart more than that after a decent curry.



No again, but I follow the local laws in this country which states clearly that solo diving is not allowed.



Somehow I doubt that you'd be happy diving here with me. If you sign up for a normal 2-tank dive with me, the schedule is there for crew and me to return to the island to have lunch before going out again in the afternoon. If you were to rent your own boat, then you're free to make your own schedule as long as you abide by local law.

There are a few dedicated diving islands in the Maldives but the majority are Spa Resorts with the option for diving. I would suggest you would have a better time on a safari boat, however unfortunately they also run to a schedule. With a decent group of like-minded friends, you could probably get a good deal on a charter in low season and have a blast.

If you were looking to be island based, in the long run it'd be better to rent your own boat, and have a dry DM (another Maldivian law)

http://www.agoffice.gov.mv/pdf/subrege/Diving.pdf
Section 2: Supervision of Diving Activities
(1) All diving activities, both land and boat based, must be supervised by Dive Centre Staff either
directly or indirectly. If a Dive Centre Staff is found to be negligent in supervision, the Dive
Centre Staff and the Dive Centre will be subject to appropriate action as deemed fit by the
government authorities.

Thanks for the explanation. I now understand my problem would be more a factor of the Maldives and not with you directly. I would not want to dive in the Maldives with the government so involved in restricting my diving based on the LCD. It make me really appreciate places like Bonaire where the government regs are clearly aimed at protecting the environment yet leaving divers maximum freedom.

I do not object to the idea of a gas plan (with well considered dive op input) including a reserve for surface use WHEN APPROPRIATE. I also believe that reserve should be thought out and planned for each set of diving conditions. There are conditions where I may reserve more than 500 psi (rough seas causing challenging boat reboarding) and other very benign conditions where I would have no problem exiting the water with very little pressure in my tank (below IP). But it is a decision I make.

I also fully understand the need for dive ops to maintain a schedule and set reasonable dive times to accommodate that schedule. But when the op advertises, on line, that you will dive your gas and your computer and then explains, on the boat, that they are further limiting bottom time; that is not acceptable.

 

[chrpai]

That PDF was an intersting read. Never realized the Maldives were such a nanny state. I know where I won't be traveling to now.

 

[supergaijin]

The rules came about after a series of 'incidents' in the 80's I believe. Whole groups were going missing, people were getting loved up by wildlife etc.

The Maldives as a location is one of the best I have dived in year round, but there are certain 'one-size fits all' rules that can be limiting to the more experienced diver eg. 30m max depths. I know of a few operators that routinely dive beyond that but they're usually pretty well connected and can I guess they can afford to smudge certain rules.

EDIT: Working in Sharm el Sheikh, we had similar rules... 30m max depth, dive time max 60mins- sometimes shorter as the harbour closed at a certain time and we were required to return on time, New Zealand the same (even shallower in Fiordland). After becoming an instructor the only times I regularly dived deeper than 30m was in Djibouti (CMAS rules) and in the Philippines when I chartered my own boat.

 

[nimoh]

I personally would rather dive operators were not so strict, dives plans should be discussed with the boat crew so that they know what time to expect you, but things like gear setup and reserve should be up to the diver.

Unfortunately, for some divers, anything that goes wrong becomes the operators fault, and so the operators need to make a reasonable effort to protect themselves, and I respect that even though I don't sue people for things that aren't their fault.

Because of this, I am willing to accept any rules imposed by the operator, and like Jim said, if I don't agree with the rules I might not dive with them. They have set the rules based on protecting themselves the best they now how,

 

[Thalassamania]

No, I say that surfacing with a minimum reserve of air is being a safe and conscientious diver. The reserve is there for a purpose. That reserve may save your life or mine.


200psi?!! I fart more than that after a decent curry.



No again, but I follow the local laws in this country which states clearly that solo diving is not allowed.



Somehow I doubt that you'd be happy diving here with me. If you sign up for a normal 2-tank dive with me, the schedule is there for crew and me to return to the island to have lunch before going out again in the afternoon. If you were to rent your own boat, then you're free to make your own schedule as long as you abide by local law.

There are a few dedicated diving islands in the Maldives but the majority are Spa Resorts with the option for diving. I would suggest you would have a better time on a safari boat, however unfortunately they also run to a schedule. With a decent group of like-minded friends, you could probably get a good deal on a charter in low season and have a blast.

If you were looking to be island based, in the long run it'd be better to rent your own boat, and have a dry DM (another Maldivian law)

http://www.agoffice.gov.mv/pdf/subrege/Diving.pdf
Section 2: Supervision of Diving Activities
(1) All diving activities, both land and boat based, must be supervised by Dive Centre Staff either
directly or indirectly. If a Dive Centre Staff is found to be negligent in supervision, the Dive
Centre Staff and the Dive Centre will be subject to appropriate action as deemed fit by the
government authorities.



My friend a few months ago got a free ride to the chamber and then to Sri Lanka for a PFO check (negative) after 2 dives with an ultra-conservative computer. Another last year couldn't walk properly and found out he was bent in his ear- again nothing wrong on his computer.

Dive operators are conservative by nature as people do have accidents. I have been a diving instructor for 6 years or so. In that time I have been subjected to tens of thousands of dives. That number consists not only of my dives but those of my co-workers. We see accidents and we see 'unjustified' DCS.

FYI, the typical diving workday for DMs/Instrs 'livin the dream' is between 10 and 12 hrs. I expect my staff to have time for a decent lunch for their own safety and sanity, and of course to keep a smile on their face while they are trying their hardest to be "customer experience orientated".

For those divers- and there seems to be a large number of them in this thread- who do not want to dive with groups and thus be confined in to schedules etc., go private. Hire a boat, crew, tank and weights and have fun. Frankly for experienced divers I think this is the way to go.

That PDF was an intersting read. Never realized the Maldives were such a nanny state. I know where I won't be traveling to now.

The rules came about after a series of 'incidents' in the 80's I believe. Whole groups were going missing, people were getting loved up by wildlife etc.

The Maldives as a location is one of the best I have dived in year round, but there are certain 'one-size fits all' rules that can be limiting to the more experienced diver eg. 30m max depths. I know of a few operators that routinely dive beyond that but they're usually pretty well connected and can I guess they can afford to smudge certain rules.

Section 16: Diving for Commercial Fishing & Marine Research

(1) Diving for marine resources and marine research are not covered under these regulations. Permission should be obtained from the concerned government authorities before engaging in such activities.

I can see an effective way around the problem in the Maldives ... scientific diving in cooperation with (perhaps even as part of a course run thorough) the National University.

 

[ttew]

I do like to follow the rules when they make sense or the Dive Op has reasonably sound reason for them.

The 500 psi rule: If the Dive OP says, "..less than that will require a VIP, and you will pay". I say, "I will give you $500 cash right now if you can get water in a tank, without and mechanical aids, that has even 200 PSI in it." I've never paid.

I think 500' of line are wort your 500$