Diver missing today? 03/28/12

[rkfatheree]

1. since the lady was diving from a cruise ship, it can be surmised that she did not bring her own gear so was using rental gear which she was not familiar with and also that she was a beginner.
2. since it says the DM did not know she was gone, it can also be surmised that she did not signal to him (ever boat dive I have ever done, the DM briefs that you need to tell him if you need to go up, for whatever reason, and your buddy always goes with you)
3. since she was diving from a cruise ship, it can also be assumed that she was buddied with someone that she did not know and that neither of them was paying any attention to the other... a newbie mistake.
4. AND we can all assume at this point that current had nothing to do with the disappearance.

All assumptions... but I think most likely all true.

I hope they find her alive, but the longer it goes, the less likely.

robin

I wouldn't assume that the current had nothing to do with it, although who's to say!

The currents have been whacky. In the last week we've had to abort one dive with divers in the water, lost two of our group (very experienced - they were fine.) It only took seconds for us to lose the reef and we were with VERY experienced DMs. Another dive, one of our group got caught in a downdraft and was lost for about ten minutes. I deployed my SBM for the first time, after our DM told us to ascend when my husband ran low on air. On the boat he said he wouldn't do that again with the currents - that he would have everyone ascend together. (I wasn't worried. We were approached by two boats asking if we needed help, and I could see our boat, albeit several hundred meters away. They radioed our boat and they picked us and the rest of our group up.) Most of our boat-mates have been more experienced than our group, but there have been a number of "Dive Discovery" people who should not be allowed in open water, period. They certainly should not be on dives where the current is more unpredictable than usual.

I believe each diver has to take responsibility for him/herself, but I also think these uncertified divers don't necessarily know enough to make educated decisions for themselves. Perhaps she wasn't a "discover scuba" diver, but having seen others from the cruise ships this week, that's an assumption that I would definitely make.

P.S. Yesterday afternoon, our DMs started making sure everyone had SBMs and distributed them to those without!

 

[cvchief]

So one report says the DM knew she surfaced, but the boat didn't see her and kept following the group. The other says nobody noticed she left the group. Whatever the case, she ascended solo not that long into the dive.

I'm sure we've all see the scenario, or maybe even done it ourselves. Diving with a group and one person is low on air or has an issue and decides to go up. The buddy (if they have one) and/or DM watches them as they go up until they break the surface. Some DMs, depending on what point in the dive, will shoot their marker so the boat knows a diver is coming up. Others don't. Some divers have their own SMBs, some don't. Some have them and have no idea how to deploy them. I think that group diving, especially if you're in a small group and are not traveling with a dive buddy, it's easy to have this happen. I know divers who choose Cozumel because as a solo traveling diver they like the group aspect of the diving.

This isn't the first accident where a diver ascended solo. DMs can't see everything all the time. Divers need to take some responsibility too, both for themselves and their fellow divers in the group. If you see someone getting ready to go up alone, get the DMs attention if they haven't, or maybe even consider buddying up and going up with them, even if it does cut your dive. If you're the one that wants to ascend, get your DMs attention and also get someone to go up with you. Carry an SMB, even if it's a small one, and know how to use it. Having a whistle or other device is good too. If the boat doesn't see you in a few minutes you might need to get their attention. I'd rather apologize for being a little obnoxious then not be seen.

I don't know. If the DM knew she was going up, shouldn't he make sure the boat has her sighted before moving on? The group is a group and is assumedly ok continuing the dive. The diver going up has some issue or she wouldnt be going up. She needs the DM not the group. As soon as the DM turns his back on that surfacing diver, she is 'lost' until and if the boat finds her.


Added: This isnt to say a diver shouldn't be prepared to take care of themselves and all that. Diver and DM responsibilities should overlap for safety, not meet in the middle. I hear the speech on EVERY dive. "DO NOT leave my signal tube until the boat arrives. If you leave the signal tube, I can't see and the boat can't see you and you are lost. The most important thing is STAY next to my signal tube and if you have a problem, pull on it and I will come up to you." I have my own SMB and whistle and all anyway, but my DM's plan is that I won't use it.

 

[gypsyjim]

The only exception to your comments I'd have is that I don't believe it's a DMs job to heard certified divers who typically behave like cats. Sad is it is, the diver in question is responsible for her own actions. We don't know the circumstances but if it's true that she broke the surface then there is every reason to think she should have been able to keep things under control. So again, the exception I take is that the diver was responsible, not the DM.

I would agree that every certified diver should be able to be able to dive without a shepherd, but the reality is not all can. Especially in the case of cruise ship divers, this is often simply not the case. This is the real world as it is today, and Coz does require a DM shepherd for all of us, no matter how good a diver we are and those DM"s are expected to be in control of their charges, and oversee their safety.

I for one, would be quite happy to use the local DM's there simply to point my way, and let me go, but that is not how coz diving is set up.

 

[robint]

I wish every diver, especially NEW ones would follow the buddy rule!!

My husband is an instructor here locally and most of his students are heading off on a trip shortly after certification. I cannot tell you some of the horror stories he gets back from them after their first trip.
The one that applies here is a family - Mom, Dad, 2 teen kids, who he certified just before a Belize trip. They returned and were telling us about their trip, and how her husband had bouyancy issues and went down to +120' over and over. We asked who was his buddy. And the first thing the Mom told us was that is was so awesome not to have to worry about a buddy! The DM told them that they were all in a group and no buddies needed. Really? WTF. My husband and another instructor were standing there listening and started yelling at her... she still didn't get it. Over and over they told her YES, YOU ALWAYS HAVE A BUDDY AND YOU ALWAYS NEED TO DO ALL THE BUDDY CHECK STUFF YOU LEARNED IN CLASS, EVERY DIVE, NO MATTER WHERE YOU ARE!!! But she still kept saying - No, the DM said we were all together and no buddies. ~sigh~ Scary.

robin

 

[Randy43068]

So you place blame on the DM for this? Seems that's what you're saying.
If the DM is responsible as you seem to suggest then they should require a skills test before the dive. It's only fair.

I would agree that every certified diver should be able to be able to dive without a shepherd, but the reality is not all can. Especially in the case of cruise ship divers, this is often simply not the case. This is the real world as it is today, and Coz does require a DM shepherd for all of us, no matter how good a diver we are and those DM"s are expected to be in control of their charges, and oversee their safety.

I for one, would be quite happy to use the local DM's there simply to point my way, and let me go, but that is not how coz diving is set up.

 

[Firefyter]

I would agree that every certified diver should be able to be able to dive without a shepherd, but the reality is not all can. Especially in the case of cruise ship divers, this is often simply not the case.

This is the case more often than not. They either need babysitting, or want it.

I for one, would be quite happy to use the local DM's there simply to point my way, and let me go, but that is not how coz diving is set up.

There are a few that will do almost that once they are confident in your skills. It really pays in this area to develop a relationship with your DM through the years. Once they find you are capable and that they can trust you, you do get more freedom.

I wish every diver, especially NEW ones would follow the buddy rule!!

Don't want one, don't need one. I trust my skills way more than I trust most other divers. I'll take care of myself, thanks.....

So you place blame on the DM for this? Seems that's what you're saying.
If the DM is responsible as you seem to suggest then they should require a skills test before the dive. It's only fair.

Randy, I get your point, and I totally agree with you. However, if you're diving with a DM there for more than one dive, don't think they're not evaluating you. They're watching how you dive, and this evaluation has a lot to do with what other sites you dive with them.

 

[Jax]

I wish every diver, especially NEW ones would follow the buddy rule!!

My husband is an instructor here locally and most of his students are heading off on a trip shortly after certification. I cannot tell you some of the horror stories he gets back from them after their first trip.
The one that applies here is a family - Mom, Dad, 2 teen kids, who he certified just before a Belize trip. They returned and were telling us about their trip, and how her husband had bouyancy issues and went down to +120' over and over. We asked who was his buddy. And the first thing the Mom told us was that is was so awesome not to have to worry about a buddy! The DM told them that they were all in a group and no buddies needed. Really? WTF. My husband and another instructor were standing there listening and started yelling at her... she still didn't get it. Over and over they told her YES, YOU ALWAYS HAVE A BUDDY AND YOU ALWAYS NEED TO DO ALL THE BUDDY CHECK STUFF YOU LEARNED IN CLASS, EVERY DIVE, NO MATTER WHERE YOU ARE!!! But she still kept saying - No, the DM said we were all together and no buddies. ~sigh~ Scary.

robin

OMG, I so hate this! What is it about Scuba Divers that they can meet someone with the moniker, DM, and suddenly s/he is the world's smartest person and they can forget everything they are trained to do!

Robin, can I cross-quote you to the Blamestorming thread?

 

[nimoh]

OMG, I so hate this! What is it about Scuba Divers that they can meet someone with the moniker, DM, and suddenly s/he is the world's smartest person and they can forget everything they are trained to do!

Robin, can I cross-quote you to the Blamestorming thread?

I am a DM, and will be the first to admit that I don't know everything about diving. But I do know every diver needs a buddy.

 

[Jax]

I am a DM, and will be the first to admit that I don't know everything about diving. But I do know every diver needs a buddy.

Mind if I disagree with that, as a blanket statement?

A diver needs to BE a good buddy, and HAVE a good buddy.

Having a lousy buddy is worse than not having one at all. At least solo, you KNOW you don't have a buddy.

 

[Firefyter]

I am a DM, and will be the first to admit that I don't know everything about diving. But I do know every diver needs a buddy.

No they don't.