Diving licences are nothing

[lairdb]

Why dont boat owners have to have a license, or do they already have them, but it means nothing except they paid the fee, learned nothing and run over any kind of flag/buoy/person in the water that they see (or rather dont see) fit?

You miss the point (in the U.S., at least.) Review Boatlawyer's message and filter for philosophy.

The question under the U.S. system is "Why should boat owners have to have a licence? I.e. what compelling public interest exists that justifies enforcement at gunpoint?" (Make no mistake, when you invoke the government, that's what it comes down to in the end -- you are willing to use force to enforce compliance.)

 

[Buoyant1]

Personally, I don't see my certification being a "license" to Dive...If I want to do that I'll just take a resort course, pay a little extra and take a little time extra each time, and do my dives with a certified pro... I see getting my certification card as a means to KNOW what the heck I'm doing in order to keep myself (and others) safe.

So far I think that the course is a "here's what to do in case you get into trouble so you don't KILL yourself" course.

I'm sure that once I'm through, and certified I'll still be diving with people with experience for a long while until I feel comfortable to go with friends that are "casual recreational" divers. It's supposed to be fun, not dangerous (well unless you're into that sort of thing)

 

[DennisS]

Most divers have a C card. This is not a certification. It is a license fee,

Cop to diver getting out of water: Where's your license
Diver: My what, here's my C card
Cop: No your state of Florida Divers license-here's your $50 ticket

There are people pushing to get divers licensed, they want the money it generates. No tests, just pay the fee.

 

[simbrooks]

You miss the point (in the U.S., at least.) Review Boatlawyer's message and filter for philosophy.

The question under the U.S. system is "Why should boat owners have to have a licence? I.e. what compelling public interest exists that justifies enforcement at gunpoint?" (Make no mistake, when you invoke the government, that's what it comes down to in the end -- you are willing to use force to enforce compliance.)

It was a tangent off the side of the whole license to dive theme, just saying that if divers are required to have a license to dive (even though they could really only kill themselves or a buddy), and drivers (using a large, fast moving projectile on the roads) have to have one, why dont recreational boat operators (i understand boat charters have to have them), as they are also fast moving, potentially lethal vehicles. Its seems weird to ask divers to have a license, but not boat owners, i know who is a greater risk to the general public - also who isnt trained to use such vehicles, just jump on and put it in gear.

As for c-card being a license to dive, learners permit is a phrase i used a lot on here, its a bit of both, but it certainly doesnt mean you are a master at diving.

 

[CBulla]

You miss the point (in the U.S., at least.) Review Boatlawyer's message and filter for philosophy.

The question under the U.S. system is "Why should boat owners have to have a licence? I.e. what compelling public interest exists that justifies enforcement at gunpoint?" (Make no mistake, when you invoke the government, that's what it comes down to in the end -- you are willing to use force to enforce compliance.)

Come dive in South Florida and you'll never ask that question again.

I think Boatlawyer answered the C-card question better than I could ever have hoped. What you'll find most in the US is shops looking for those certifications and covering their legal butts that you were "trained".

 

[Scubaguy62]

The question under the U.S. system is "Why should boat owners have to have a licence? I.e. what compelling public interest exists that justifies enforcement at gunpoint?" (Make no mistake, when you invoke the government, that's what it comes down to in the end -- you are willing to use force to enforce compliance.)

As my fellow conchdiver, CBulla, has so eloquently stated, come dive South Florida, then ask "Why should boat owners [should] have to have a licence?"

The State of Florida makes no requirement of private boat owners to have any type of boat licensing or for that matter education (Sometimes I wonder if being able to read is also not a requirement, especially when you see, and hear about manatees being killed due to boat owners not "seeing" the sign "MANATEE ZONE IDDLE SPEED NO WAKE"). That's a recipe for disaster, and in many instances, has spelled disaster. Just ask Gloria Estefan. Unfortunately, the boating community in Florida has "superhuman" lobying powers in Tallahassee, which is something we, the SB diving community in So. Fla.(yes Colin, take the credit), are desperately trying to change.

As far as willing to use force to enforce compliance, not necessarily. The use of force is only authorized in the face of threat of great bodily harm, or death. Enforcing compliance is more of a deterrent than a call for the use of force.

 

[miketsp]

As my fellow conchdiver, CBulla, has so eloquently stated, come dive South Florida, then ask "Why should boat owners [should] have to have a licence?"

The State of Florida makes no requirement of private boat owners to have any type of boat licensing or for that matter education (Sometimes I wonder if being able to read is also not a requirement, especially when you see, and hear about manatees being killed due to boat owners not "seeing" the sign "MANATEE ZONE IDDLE SPEED NO WAKE"). That's a recipe for disaster, and in many instances, has spelled disaster. Just ask Gloria Estefan. Unfortunately, the boating community in Florida has "superhuman" lobying powers in Tallahassee, which is something we, the SB diving community in So. Fla.(yes Colin, take the credit), are desperately trying to change.

As far as willing to use force to enforce compliance, not necessarily. The use of force is only authorized in the face of threat of great bodily harm, or death. Enforcing compliance is more of a deterrent than a call for the use of force.

Is there no third party insurance requirement for boats in S.Florida?
In many countries the thing becomes self-policing because you need insurance.
Then the insurers will charge more to non-qualified buyers as the risk is higher.
So there is an incentive to get qualified.

A similar thing happens here with car insurance. My son, as a young driver gets his car insurance loaded because of his age, but there is a significant reduction if he has completed a (one day) safe driving course in the last 2 years.
So all drivers in this age group end up doing the course voluntarily.

 

[DennisS]

Is there no third party insurance requirement for boats in S.Florida?
In many countries the thing becomes self-policing because you need insurance.
Then the insurers will charge more to non-qualified buyers as the risk is higher.
So there is an incentive to get qualified.

There is a price reduction in boat insurance if you have taken a power squadron safety course.
Insurance is not required but is strongly advised. Responsible people go this route.

Insurance is required to drive an automobile but ignored by a large segment of the population in south Florida. My favorite is the cardboard placard with some numbers on it and the "lost tag" notation. Florida drivers licenses can be obtained by anyone.

If anyone thinks having a boaters license will make diving safe, go bicycling in south florida and see how safe it is, with all those licensed drivers. It's a question of attitude, "They're in my road", "What are they doing this far out in "my boat lane".

 

[Scubaguy62]

If anyone thinks having a boaters license will make diving safe, go bicycling in south florida and see how safe it is, with all those licensed drivers. It's a question of attitude, "They're in my road", "What are they doing this far out in "my boat lane".

It's a question of numbers though Dennis...there are far more drivers than there are boaters, yet, there are designated bicycle lanes in So. Fla.

 

[DennisS]

It all comes down to attitude. A license will not change the moron that goes running 50 yards off the beach at 50 mph. It will not change the behaviour of the auto driver that sees how close he can get to the bicyclist when passing on the road. It won't change the loon that goes zipping in and out of 40 mph traffic at 60. A licensed loon is still a loon. If you take his license away he'll still run his boat, he just figures he won't get caught. A license will just inconvenience the rest of us.

Besides that, its suicide for any politician to endorse one.

This is the state that voted automobile inspections be eliminated.