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(drumrole) Yet Another DIR Question!!!!!

Discussion in 'General Scuba Equipment Discussions' started by LiveGoat, Aug 7, 2001.

  1. LiveGoat

    LiveGoat Angel Fish

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    Okay, I've been diving DIR for awhile now and have one small problem. Whenever I need to look at my pressure guage I have to turn my head as far left as possible and look out of the corner of my eye while gently tugging the SPG into my field of view. If I'm wearing a snorkle (while in the ocean), this is even more difficult as the snorkle's mouthpiece can get in the way of my fleeting window of opportunity. The SPG is clipped on my left belt D-ring, so am I supposed to unclip it in order to comfortably view everytime I need to check my air? Am I clipping it in the wrong place? Is the hose too short? I thought there were rules about length (LOL)! I really love my rig because it's so damn streamlined and comfortable, but that's my only complaint. I'm using an ACB weight integrated system, but I don't think that would cause any problems. Has anyone else had this happen, or am I just insane?

    Thanks.

    ------Ray
     
  2. large_diver

    large_diver Loggerhead Turtle

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    When I first had my SPG clipped to my belt D-ring, I didn't like it for the same reasons you mention above. BTW, I don't dive a "100% DIR" rig, but am making a slow transition to a more DIR-like setup. As a result, I still use a jacket BC with d rings on my shoulders, my mid chest and my belt. I now clip off my SPG on the left chest D ring -- it is easy to see by simply dropping my head and lifting the gauge slightly with my hand...no unclipping.

    I also ditched my snorkle recently....but I don't want to open THAT can of worms ;-)
     
  3. bradymsu

    bradymsu Instructor, Scuba

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    Ray,

    Get rid of the snorkel unless you plan on swimming on the surface for long distances such as in a shore dive. Carry it tucked away for emergencies.

    Keep your spg clipped down and only use it for redundancy. For your primary system, use a air integrated hoseless computer that attaches to your wrist. It's rare for a computer to fail and hundreds of times less likely for it to make an error than for a human to make an error in dive planning. Plan your dives with your tables anyway though and check them against the computer.

    With these suggestions, I think you'll be both safer and able to more easily and frequently monitor your pressure, depth, deco, etc.
     
  4. omar

    omar Solo Diver

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    IF you want to dive DIR.........

    Get rid of the snorkel.

    Get rid of the acb pouches, use a weight belt.

    Move the hip d-ring forward slightly, you should be able to view the spg by just tucking your chin down.

    You should have a very good knowledge of your air consumption and dive time, the spg should match.

    DO NOT BUY A HOSELESS AIR INTEGRATED COMPUTER. IT IS UNNECCESSARY AND ANOTHER FAILURE POINT.

    Your buddy is your redundancy.


    omar

     
  5. bradymsu

    bradymsu Instructor, Scuba

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    Omar says:

    DO NOT BUY A HOSELESS AIR INTEGRATED COMPUTER. IT IS UNNECCESSARY AND ANOTHER FAILURE POINT.

    I've went back and forth on the issue of using my buddy's spg or a computer for a long time. I know it's been debated on this board before. I've decided to use a computer because I believe it to be less of a failure point than a buddy, even the best buddy.

    First, in dive planning, especially in an unexpected situation underwater, a computer is far far less likely to make a miscalculation than any human being or any two human beings combined.

    Second, even the best buddies may disappear on you due to environmental conditions. As any experienced diver can tell you this is more common than computer failure. And you only have one buddy to lose, but two computers (primary and redundant) to fail to put yourself in a bad situation.

    I agree that you should dive with a well trained buddy. But I do not believe in depending on your buddy's equipment for life support, especially in this case when adding a hoseless air integrated computer is not going to present an obstacle to being streamlined in the water or entanglement.

    DIR has a lot of good ideas but it still has failure points. One of the greatest of these is the belief that if you follow all the rules, plan everything to perfection, and dive with a well-trained DIR buddy, you won't get into problems underwater. Unfortunately, Murphy's Law trumps DIR.
     
  6. Iguana Don

    Iguana Don Guest

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    bradymsu,

    Why would you respond to the question put forth by LiveGoat?
    His question was directed to DIR dirvers. Weather you like it or not, the question was directed to them. He has already made up his mind on which direction he is taking.

    I would like to think that if I asked a question concerning cold water diving, I would get answers from cold water divers and none from the Caribbean divers....get the point.

    IMHO he asked a logical question and it deserves a logical answer, such as he got from omar, not some DIR bashing as you started.

    ID
     
  7. bradymsu

    bradymsu Instructor, Scuba

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    I posted a response because Scuba Board is a forum open to all divers, not a forum restircted to DIR divers or a forum with threads limited to those of like opinions. DIR forums exist and I would not consider posting there. I think we both understand what the reaction would be. Though LiveGoat posted a question, he will not be the only one reading this particular thread. Plenty of other divers, many of them who are new divers or more experienced divers who have elected not to follow any one particular diving creed will also be reading this forum and should have the opportunity to see a variety of opinions.

    I would never attack anyone or "bash" anyone's belief on Scuba Board, that's the great thing about it that few other internet diving discussion sites share. As I said earlier, I respect the DIR philosophy on many of its points but think it has flaws. I'm a Catholic but don't agree with every statement the Vatican makes. I don't think this means I'm bashing Catholicism.

    If you reread my first response, I did offer the logic behind my opinion. You may not agree with it, some divers may even consider it controversial. But it wasn't hostile. If King Neptune feels my earlier post isn't appropriate on this thread or that this thread should only be open to posts by DIR divers, I will respectfully remove it or edit it.
     
  8. BetterLateThannever

    BetterLateThannever Barracuda

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    Careful ID,

    Let's not get so restrictive that all topics turn into nothing more than pablum.

    The way I read it, Large_Diver stated he was not "100% DIR" either, yet his input certainly has merit IMO. Likewise, Brady's post did address the central question posted by LiveGoat, namely how to better view his SPG.

    As in all things in life; the listener is always free to "take it or leave it", but let us not venture out onto the slippery slope of censoring the marketplace of ideas and discussion.....huh? Who said that? :)
     
  9. omar

    omar Solo Diver

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    Well guys DIR diving is the whole enchilada. Not bits and pieces that you find convenient to use. A major part of the DIR equipment configuration is your buddy. As I said before if you want to dive DIR don't get a hose less air integrated computer. The deco algorithm will not work for multiple gases or for trimix. DIR means also that you will be eliminating any unnecessary failure points such as an extra high pressure fitting. If you really want to dive DIR and view your spg follow the recommendations that I posted earlier. Adding more crap on your body does not allow you to view the spg any better.

    omar
     
  10. omar

    omar Solo Diver

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    You know I went back and read your earlier post bradymsu.

    You have a misconception about DIR. It is not a belief, a concept, a lemma or opinion that if you dive DIR that you will not encounter problems. In fact DIR is based on the premise that what ever can happen will happen. Or as you put it, Murphy's law will come into play. It is precisely this premise that the equipment configuration is based upon (and this includes the buddy). If you have a failure point it will fail. So your recommendation to have two computers, one with an additional failure point is poorly considered and not taken to the logical conclusion that it will fail. To me the loss of my buddy is much more serious than the failure of a computer. In fact I don't dive with a computer. I use a bottom timer and depth gauge, and I have a back up watch with depth gauge on it. However if my depth gauge fails I signal my buddy that it is time to turn the dive and it is done. No questions, no tempting fate no BS.
    Also key to DIR diving is considering all the likely possible problems that can and will be encountered and training of the proper response to each scenario. It is the SAME training and equipment that DIR divers go through so the responses will be automatic and second nature. It appears to me that you need better buddies. But for recreational diving you always can just blow and go.

    omar
     

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