Extremely cold water is a different story though. Lake Superior water temp at depth is in the 30's year round. I have not personally done a dive on the Kamloops as it's a very deep dive (270ft max I believe). From what I've heard from locals who have done dives to the Kamloops the bodies inside the wreck are still fully clothed and intact after over 70 years underwater.
Edmund Fitzgerald
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I don't know if it's true but I heard the body or bodies in the Kamloop were removed.
Spectre, At several hundred feet in the great lakes there isn't muct in the way of critters. The water is cold with little O2 to cause decay.
Spectre, At several hundred feet in the great lakes there isn't muct in the way of critters. The water is cold with little O2 to cause decay.
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I have not heard anything about removal of the dead from the Kamloops. Admittedly its far away from me but I do try to follow wreck diving news from all over.
Last I heard, and its been a few years, a guy told me a story about diving there. He said he was swimming through the engine room and one of the bodies kinda "got caught in his wake" as he put it and more or less followed him around. Said it spooked hell out of him (as I imagine it would). He implied that this was a known phenomenon and that locals called the guy "Grandpa".
That's second hand info drawn only from my memory. I can't vouch for the truth of it.
Tom
Call me skeptical perhaps but unless the water was complete sterile like the Black sea (at depth) I don't see how there wouldn't be some form of life to assist in the decomposition. I have no trouble with bones and some kind of clothes being preserved, or not decomposed as quickly... Maybe I should be called Thomas ...?
Depends on your viewpoint and how close you are to the events. I would submit to you that you might feel differently if you were close to someone who went down on her. In many minds it's probably no different than standing on top of a grave in a cemetary. Something many were raised not to do.
As a wreck diver i'll admit to being more or less thoughtless of this due to the desire to dive wrecks. Didn't think twice about it in Chuuk for example, so i understand how you feel. I had no tie to those who lost their lives in Hailstorm. Nor do i have much sympathy for those lost there since it was an us or them war senario in which i would always picks us.
In my mind the sinking of the Fitz was nothing like that. It was a tragety for many of us in this area because we were closer to the incident than most. I'm sure many families in Japan thought the events that transpired in Operation Hailstorm were equally tragic.
For this reason, even if she was in the range i would dive, i would not dive the Fitz. Out of respect for those i know who would prefer she not be dived on. If that sets a precedent then so be it. You can debate the ethics of what should or shouldn't be closed to diving all day long. I would not feel right diving the Fitz.
Can't think of a more legitimate reason than respect for the living.
Nitrox Junkie
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The 250-foot package freighter Kamloops was lost without a trace in early December 1927. The ship failed to survive a fierce, early winter storm as it rushed to complete the shipping season. Twenty-two lives were lost in the shipwreck which is believed to have occurred when the ship capsized in heavy seas near shore. The Kamloops was constructed in 1924 and hauled grain to and from many Great Lakes ports. The ship's remains were discovered by sport divers in 1977. A few artifacts have been removed and some artifacts, such as the emergency steering wheel, have been padlocked in place by sport divers to prevent further looting. In recent years bodies of crewmen were removed from the engine room compartments.
By Steve Harrington
About 300' off Twelve O'Clock Point, north shore of Isle Royale. The Kamloops story is one of the more tragic Isle Royale shipwreck tales. Built in England in 1924, this steel freighter (250' x 42'9" x 24'3") foundered in a severe early winter storm on December 6, 1927, alongside rocky Isle Royale. Not all of the crew of 20 men and 2 women perished immediately; some reached the island by lifeboat and froze or starved to death slowly. One woman left a heart-wrenching note to her parents in a bottle. The bodies were found the following spring. The Kamloops was located in 1977, with diver Ken Merryman being the first to explore and identify her. She lies on her starboard side, bow deeper than stern, and very intact, with the perfectly preserved ship's wheel chain-and-padlocked in place so it won't get lost.
Cris Kohl
By Steve Harrington
About 300' off Twelve O'Clock Point, north shore of Isle Royale. The Kamloops story is one of the more tragic Isle Royale shipwreck tales. Built in England in 1924, this steel freighter (250' x 42'9" x 24'3") foundered in a severe early winter storm on December 6, 1927, alongside rocky Isle Royale. Not all of the crew of 20 men and 2 women perished immediately; some reached the island by lifeboat and froze or starved to death slowly. One woman left a heart-wrenching note to her parents in a bottle. The bodies were found the following spring. The Kamloops was located in 1977, with diver Ken Merryman being the first to explore and identify her. She lies on her starboard side, bow deeper than stern, and very intact, with the perfectly preserved ship's wheel chain-and-padlocked in place so it won't get lost.
Cris Kohl
Nitrox Junkie
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On November 10, 1975 the Edmund Fitzgerald sank in Lake Superior.
Do you remember the song? Listen: Wreck Of The Edmund Fitzgerald. Check it out on www.gordonlightfoot.com
Do you remember the song? Listen: Wreck Of The Edmund Fitzgerald. Check it out on www.gordonlightfoot.com
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And I very much respect your choice to not dive her. Would you dive the Andrea Doria? How about the U'S.S. Monitor? How about the U.S.S. San Diego? How about the Marine Electric? How about the Northern Light? How about the Kamloops? How about the U-whatever? Have you dived any wrecks that are not artificial reefs? If so, they very well may have contained human remains. There also may very well be relative of those sailors who feel the ship should not be dived.
I believe most divers are very respective of human remains. Those who are not are guilty of moral, if not criminal, negligence.
My point is that if you allow the "law" to keep you off one wreck, its a short step to all wrecks.
I personally plan to visit the Big Fitz someday. When I do I will be respectful of the sailors, as I have been with the sailors I have visited in the past.
Tom
xtarheel
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Very profound and insightful WreckWrighter, each of us has to do some personal soul searching and make our own decisions. I grew up on the coast of North Carolina where we dived on Civil War Blockade Runners and WW-2 tankers and freighters. Even though people died, their earthly bodies had long since been consumed by the marine environment. I would love to dive in the Pacific where my father fought and latter died from jungle disease accquired on Guadalcanal and I feel no quams about diving any Jappanese wreck. In the Great Lakes where I lost two great uncles on the M&B #2, I wouldn't want to enter a ship where there where intact human remains. Maybe it comes down to being a personal decision rather than a governmental mandate.
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