Freediving from snorkeling boat?

[Bob DBF]

"Freediving" originated with the pearl and sponge divers of ancient times. It wasn't called "snorkeling". Actually, it was called "skin diving" in the earlier part of the 20th century. Today, snorkeling does not mean you are going to depth of 100+ ft, etc. The idea that there is no distinction is nonsensical. Go on a typical snorkel boat and say "Hey, everyone, alright follow me! We're going to go down to 100 ft and look around" See what everyone says about that, LOL.

Back in the late '50"s and '60's, as I remember, skin diving was the term mostly used, and free diving, snorkeling and SCUBA were included in the term. Skin diving and free diving were used to differentiate from a hard hat diver and anyone using surface supplied air. SCUBA had to have specific equipment so it was differentiated from skin diving earlier and free diving was used by few including competitive freedivers, who later turned it into one word (similar to the acronym SCUBA being changed to the noun scuba). Skin diving went out of use when Skin Diving Magazine folded. Who knows, it might come back in a different form. The only annoyance I have, besides using SCUBA as a noun, is that snorkeling is an activity that is now defined as floating on the surface with with a snorkel and vest to keep one on the surface, rather than the larger group of activities it can be.

As for where and when the terms "free diving" and "freediving" originated, Dictionary.com gives this:

skin-dive
[skin-dahyv]
Spell Syllables
Word Origin
verb (used without object), skin-dived or skin-dove [skin-dohv] (Show IPA), skin-diving.
1.
to engage in skin diving.
Origin of skin-dive
1950-1955

1950-55
Related forms
skin diver, noun

free diving
Word Origin
noun, Chiefly British.
1.
skin diving.
Origin of free diving
1950-1955

1950-55
Related forms
free diver, noun


freediving
/ˈfriːdaɪvɪŋ/
noun
1.
the sport or activity of diving without the aid of breathing apparatus
Derived Forms
freediver, noun

It gives no date of origin for freediving being used as a word rather than two. It also excludes snorkelers who can do the same activities with a snorkel.


It's all quite confusing, and makes communication difficult, when words change in meaning.




Bob
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There are more ways than one to skin a cat, however the cat never likes it.

 

[David Wilson]

The flagging of "free diving" as "chiefly British" by Dictionary.com bemuses me as a Brit who has snorkelled since the later 1950s. Take a look at the front covers of these books from the mid 1950s:

Not only do all three books have pictures of scuba divers on the front, but none of them are British. The publisher's note in the first, D. M. Owen's A manual for free-divers using compressed air, reads: "It will be obvious to the reader that this book is based upon American experience: to have changed the text for the benefit of readers outside the USA would have meant drastic alterations to the structure of the book." The second, The complete manual of free diving, is by Philippe Tailliez, among others, while the third, Free diving is by Dimitri Rebikoff. Both owe their title to the fact that their texts were translated from the French, where "plongée libre" (literally "free diving") signifies all forms of undersea diving other than surface-supplied "hard-hat" diving. I'm tempted therefore to conclude that the original two-word English term "free diving" was actually a Gallicism, i.e. a borrowing from French.

The normal British terms for "skin diving" (an American English term) in the early days would have been "underwater swimming" or "sub-aqua" (the national association for UK diving was and is the "British Sub Aqua Club" (BSAC)). Personally, I'm happy to describe myself as a snorkeller and not a freediver because I'm perfectly happy swimming at or near the surface of the water. As Geoffrey Dutton writes in his seminal work Swimming free, with a mask, snorkel, fins and suit you can swim distances horizontally across open water (swimtrekking) as well as vertically beneath the surface. The problem is that some "empire-building" freedivers have tried to subsume snorkelling into the general category of freediving, labelling it the at- and near-surface variety of the activity, while "skin diving", resurrecting this obsolescent term, serves to designate deeper breath-hold diving. By the way, if you want to read some earlier SB discussion on this topic, see: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/snorkeling-freediving/76674-freediving-skindiving-snorkling.html

 

[seeker242]

I've never seen a "snorkeler" go to a depth 700 ft on one breath.

 

[Bob DBF]

I've seen a bunch of my friends at 700+ feet below the surface on a couple of submarines I served on, otherwise I've never seen anyone at that depth. I have seen snorkelers at 100'+ on a few occasions, I've managed 45' in a 7 mm farmer john and 15' viz, which scared the crap out of a couple of SCUBA divers I ran across, and do 35' or so on a regular basis.


Bob

 

[seeker242]

I've been on a lot of snorkeling boats, never heard the term "shallow water blackout". We should tell these boat crews that their orientation is seriously lacking! That 60 yr old lady from Wisconsin should know about this sort of stuff or she might die!

But seriously, It makes perfect sense that the terms have changed because the sport has changed. The idea that's it's the same thing is ridiculous. Martin Stepanek and Carlos Coste are not "snorkelers"...Not even close!

 

[Lorenzoid]

I've never seen a "snorkeler" go to a depth 700 ft on one breath.

I've been on a lot of snorkeling boats, never heard the term "shallow water blackout". We should tell these boat crews that their orientation is seriously lacking! That 60 yr old lady from Wisconsin should know about this sort of stuff or she might die!

But seriously, It makes perfect sense that the terms have changed because the sport has changed. The idea that's it's the same thing is ridiculous. Martin Stepanek and Carlos Coste are not "snorkelers"...Not even close!

It would be completely useful if the term "freediving" were reserved for what we used to call "competitive freediving." But nowadays people diving to 20 or 25 feet, maybe even with a snorkel on them, are being referred to as freedivers. This is silly and confusing. When I'm out spearfishing (with a snorkel) and I dive down to look for something, I am not a freediver. I'm still a snorkeler or maybe a skin diver, as I would have referred to myself decades ago. Diving to relatively shallow, non-competition depths has long been a normal part of snorkeling. I don't care if others want to dive to what were formerly considered competition depths, but what I do care about is if their "non-competitive freediving" causes snorkeling boats to dumb down snorkeling.

 

[Bob DBF]

It would be completely useful if the term "freediving" were reserved for what we used to call "competitive freediving."

The major problem with that is that the word has had a different definition and usage for over half a century. SCUBA differentiated itself by using a different term for it's divers, goggelers (sp?) are gone, skin divers and snorkelers have different meanings dependent on who you talk to, basically the same problem.

The ADIA, Worldwide Federation for breath-hold diving, has a wide definition of freediving, and refers to their diving records as Apnea records.

CMAS sums it up quite well:

The term "Apnoea" designates a sports event where the athlete holds his breath keeping the face below the surface of the water. Free diving is a technique used in various aquatic activities. While in general all aquatic activities that include breath-hold diving might be classified as a part of free diving, some sports are better established than others. Examples of recognized freex diving activities are (non-) competitive free diving, (non-) competitive spear fishing and free diving photography. Less recognised examples of free diving include, but are not limited to, synchronised swimming, underwater rugby, underwater hockey, underwater target shooting, underwater hunting other than spear fishing, and snorkelling. The discussion remains whether free diving is only a synonym for breath-hold diving or whether it describes a specific group of underwater activities. Free diving is often strongly associated with competitive breath-hold diving or Competitive Apnoea.

So its a matter of the associations of freediving knowing the definition of the words, but the hangers-on not taking the time to read their literature.



Bob
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"If you don't like it, go on the internet and complain." Brian Griffin

 

[seeker242]

It would be completely useful if the term "freediving" were reserved for what we used to call "competitive freediving." But nowadays people diving to 20 or 25 feet, maybe even with a snorkel on them, are being referred to as freedivers. This is silly and confusing. When I'm out spearfishing (with a snorkel) and I dive down to look for something, I am not a freediver. I'm still a snorkeler or maybe a skin diver, as I would have referred to myself decades ago. Diving to relatively shallow, non-competition depths has long been a normal part of snorkeling. I don't care if others want to dive to what were formerly considered competition depths, but what I do care about is if their "non-competitive freediving" causes snorkeling boats to dumb down snorkeling.

It's a confusing term for people with no common sense. Or maybe for someone who knows nothing at all about the sport of freediving.

 

[David Wilson]

Message cancelled.

 

[Bob DBF]

David, those definitions are the opinion of the writer rather than proper dictionary definitions, which is one source of the problem of misunderstanding the terms while discussing them.

Dictionary.com:
snorkeling
[snawr-kuh-ling]
Spell Syllables
Examples Word Origin
noun
1.
the sport of swimming with a snorkel and face mask.

Origin of snorkeling 1945-1950


All of these definitions include various other activities that can be done, and were done, when the terms originated.


Bob
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I may be old, but I'm not dead yet.

---------- Post added November 26th, 2015 at 11:17 AM ----------

It's a confusing term for people with no common sense. Or maybe for someone who knows nothing at all about the sport of freediving.

It is a confusing term because people made up their own definitions to suit what they believe. As one who was skin diving / freediving / snorkeling / SCUBA diving when these terms were new, I never had a problem understanding what they meant until recently, when divers started redefining the terms to suit their needs.



Bob