How Much CO is divable

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

BertStevens

Contributor
Messages
293
Reaction score
158
Location
Lebanon, TN
# of dives
200 - 499
I read the discussions and I know 10 ppm is acceptable to USA regulators. I ordered the CooTwo and will have it before my trip to Playa del Carmen. But how much CO do you personally accept? Yes, zero is preferable! But where do you draw your personal line in the sand?
 
I read the discussions and I know 10 ppm is acceptable to USA regulators. I ordered the CooTwo and will have it before my trip to Playa del Carmen. But how much CO do you personally accept? Yes, zero is preferable! But where do you draw your personal line in the sand?

The UK standard is < 3 ppm. See this document HERE

cootwo blinks the CO indicator on the display if CO >= 3 ppm
additionally cootwo flashes also the LED if CO >= 5 ppm
 
Someone asked the question the same way a few years ago. Here: CO - how high will you go?
 
- The pressure (of breathing gas and CO gas) goes up with depth.
- Higher CO pressure in the lungs = more efficient diffusion into the blood stream
- CO binds with red blood cells and inhibits oxygen and carbon dioxide transfer. This is very very bad.
- The deeper you go the faster CO will saturate your blood cells.
- You require a limit in ppm. You should probably also state maximum depth and length of exposure.
 
Someone asked the question the same way a few years ago. Here: CO - how high will you go?

Thanks for the link. I missed that one.

- You require a limit in ppm. You should probably also state maximum depth and length of exposure.

I'll be in Playa del Carmen and using recreational limits. I believe most dives bottom out at 90 feet. I'll also be on Nitrox 32 or 36 as sites allow.
 
Thanks for the link. I missed that one.



I'll be in Playa del Carmen and using recreational limits. I believe most dives bottom out at 90 feet. I'll also be on Nitrox 32 or 36 as sites allow.
Bert,

Whether you are using Nitrox 32, Nitrox 36 or Air makes no difference when you are exposed to CO at pressure.

Subcooled stated:
- The pressure (of breathing gas and CO gas) goes up with depth.
This is only partially correct. It is the gas partial pressures that matter here, not the actual pressure of the surrounding water.
USNDM-1970PartialPressureDiagram.jpg

This shows the March 1970 US Navy Diving Manual's diagram to explain partial pressures. Note that it is directly related to the absolute pressure, starting with one atmosphere (14.7 psi) at the surface. You are talking of diving to four atmospheres absolute pressure, which is 4 x 14.7 psi or 58.8 psi. 3 ppm, which would be indicated on the coot as a warning, represents 0.000003 x 100 or 0.0003% CO in the air, at the surface (surface pressure).

3/1,000,000 = 0.000003, or 3 x 10^-6
0.000003 = X/100 = %
X = 0.000003 x 100 = 0.0003%

But at depth of 99 feet, you need to multiply that by 4, so that 0.0003% x 4 = 0.0012% CO. If for some as yet unknown reason you go to 132 feet, which is 5 atmospheres absolute pressure, you would do the same calculation and get 0.0015% in the breathing mixture.

Now, let's see what the current U.S. Navy Diving Manual states about carbon monoxide.
2-10.8 Carbon Monoxide. Carbon monoxide (CO) is a colorless, odorless, tasteless, and poisonous gas whose presence is dif cult to detect. Carbon monoxide is formed as a product of incomplete fuel combustion, and is most commonly found in the exhaust of internal combustion engines. A diver’s air supply can be contaminated by carbon monoxide when the compressor intake is placed too close to the compressor’s engine exhaust. The exhaust gases are sucked in with the air and sent on to the diver, with potentially disastrous results. Carbon monoxide seriously interferes with the blood’s ability to carry the oxygen required for the body to function normally. The af nity of carbon monoxide for hemoglobin is approximately 210 times that of oxygen. Carbon monoxide dissociates from hemoglobin at a much slower rate than oxygen.

  1. 3-5 1 1 Causes of Hypoxia. The causes of hypoxia vary, but all interfere with the normal oxygen supply to the body. For divers, interference of oxygen delivery can be caused by:
    • ...Carbon monoxide poisoning. Carbon monoxide interferes with the transport of oxygen by the hemoglobin in red blood cells and blocks oxygen utilization at the cellular level.
Further in the manual, we find this:
  1. 3-5 8 1 Causes of Carbon Monoxide Poisoning. Carbon monoxide is not found in any signi cant quantity in fresh air. Carbon monoxide poisoning is usually caused by a compressor’s intake being too close to the exhaust of an internal combustion engine or malfunction of a oil lubricated compressor. Concentrations as low as 0.002 ata (2,000 ppm, or 0.2%) can prove fatal.
  2. 3-5 8 2 Symptoms of Carbon Monoxide Poisoning. The symptoms of carbon monoxide poisoning are almost identical to those of hypoxia. When toxicity develops gradually the symptoms are:
      • Headache

      • Dizziness

      • Confusion

      • Nausea

      • Vomiting

      • Tightness across the forehead

        When carbon monoxide concentrations are high enough to cause rapid onset of poisoning, the victim may not be aware of any symptoms before he becomes unconscious.

Carbon monoxide poisoning is particularly treacherous because conspicuous symptoms may be delayed until the diver begins to ascend. While at depth, the greater partial pressure of oxygen in the breathing supply forces more oxygen into solution in the blood plasma. Some of this additional oxygen reaches the cells and helps to offset the hypoxia. In addition, the increased partial pressure of oxygen forcibly displaces some carbon monoxide from the hemoglobin. During ascent, however, as the partial pressure of oxygen diminishes, the full effect of carbon monoxide poisoning is felt.
Now note that this 0.002 at a, 0.2%, is at the surface, and because of the gas laws the partial pressure changes with the depth. So what would be the potentially fatal level in breathing gas at 99 feet? Well, that can also be calculated:

0.2% at surface / 4 atmospheres absolute = 0.05% at 99 feet

Also, the more time spent breathing CO, the more red blood cells that are affected. Here's the U.S. Navy Diving Manual's standard for breathing air:
DIVER’S BREATHING GAS PURITy STANDARDS

4-3.1

Diver’s Breathing Air. Diver’s air compressed from ANU or certi ed diving system sources shall meet the U.S. Military Diver’s Breathing Air Standards contained in Table 4-1.

Table 4-1. U S Military Diver’s Compressed Air Breathing Purity Requirements for ANU Approved or Certi ed Sources.

Constituent

Speci cation

Oxygen (percent by volume)

20–22%

Carbon dioxide (by volume)

1,000 ppm (max)

Carbon monoxide (by volume)

20 ppm (max)

Total hydrocarbons (as CH4 by volume)

25 ppm (max)

Odor and taste

Not objectionable

Oil, mist, particulates

5 mg/m3 (max)
I hope this helps.

SeaRat
John C. Ratliff, CSP, CIH, MSPH
NAUI 2710 (long ago retired)
 
Last edited:
And once the red blood cell has combined with the CO, it takes a lot longer to let it go. Even if you get someone on 100% O2, if too many red blood cells are bound with CO, the person may still asphyxiate.
 
Realistically the answer should be none as it tends to be indicative of compressor issues if it's more than that. I'm sure it happens, but I've never seen "just a touch" of CO. It's always either none, or you're f*cked.
 
In J.Y. Cousteau's first book, The Silent World, there is a chapter called "Cave Diving," which relates their dive in the Fountain of Vaucluse near Avignon, France (pages 69-85 of The Silent World) on the 24th of August, 1946. Cousteau and Dumas almost lost their lives on their initial 200 foot dive into the spring's cave (400 feet away, 200 feet depth). He relates the symptoms that they had, which rendered Dumas barely conscious and Cousteau nearly incoherent. He had just enough mental facilities left to make signals allowing them to be pulled out of the cave. Dumas almost died. They sent a second dive pair down, Captain Tailliez and Morandiére, and they also had problems, with Tailliez experiencing "the first inviting throbs of rapture of the depths. He knew that to be impossible at a mere twenty fathoms. However, the symptoms were pronounced..." They called the dive. They went back and analyzed the air, and found 1/2000 carbon monoxide from their new compressor.

1/2000 = X/100
(1/2000) x 100 = X
0.0005 x 100 = 0.05% = X

1/2000 = X/1,000,000 ppm = ppm
(1/2000) x 1,000,000 ppm = ppm
0.0005 x 1,000,000 ppm = ppm
500 ppm

They had nearly died at 200 feet with air that registered 0.05% CO at the surface. That is 500 ppm in their tanks, as measured at one atmosphere (on the surface) by releasing the breathing gas into a test device (probable a detector tube). This description by Cousteau is probably the best description of CO poisoning as it is occurring during a dive that I have read, ever!

SeaRat
John C. Ratliff, CSP, CIH, MSPH
NAUI #2710 (long ago retired)
 
Last edited:
I appreciate all the great comments. Lots of informative posts!

But back to the original question...where do you draw the line and call off diving. 3ppm, 5ppm, 10ppm.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

Back
Top Bottom