I'm the Pariah again

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RonFrank, I realize buddy separation happens, and we do of course teach the protocols for dealing with it when it happens. My point is that much more emphasis should be placed on avoiding buddy separation. We teach diving with a buddy for safety ( absent special training and proper equipment for minimizing the risks of solo diving) but then it seems that generally little emphasis is placed on things like buddy proximity and awareness. I expect we have all seen (or experienced) a diver seeing something and focusing on it, being oblivious of their buddy's location and activity. Their new buddy does the same, and in a mater of seconds the buddies are lost from each other. While some circumstance may arise that cannot be foreseen, like a sudden current I am saying that in most cases buddy separation does not have to happen.
DivemasterDennis
 
If a missing buddy is a common situation and "not an emergency", then it sounds like a failure on behalf of the crew to establish the appropriate sign and communicate it to the divers, to make this process more streamlined next time it happens and avoid delays in the rescue procedure. If the crew had lost buddy experiences before, they should have known better.

If a missing buddy is a common situation something is seriously wrong. Either with the divers, the divers training, or the conditions are such that they might want to rethink diving in those conditions until they are better equipped to handle them. That could be an equipment issue such as requiring lights or even a buddy line, but more often it is a skills and knowledge issue. Coupled with experience after obtaining the necessary skills and knowledge.

Much of what I see contributing to buddy separation is that the divers are seriously lacking in two areas. Number one is proper dive planning. And two, proper buddy procedures including a serious, frank, no BS talk on what the worst case results of each issue not being taken care of can be. A dead diver or divers. In the last couple months I have been able to dive in some new places for me and what I have seen is something I've been posting, writing articles about, and doing presentations on for over three years now. That is a lack of adequate teaching on just what proper planning is and what proper buddy procedures are. And the more I see of it, the more I'm convinced that it is because the instructors themselves are ignorant of it. Either that or they just don't care and I hope that is not the case.

Take for example planning. How many instructors tell their students that the moment they make a decision to dive is when the planning process should begin? And that all the prep from picking a site and calling a buddy to deciding who will bring lunch to the exit they will use from the water is all part of the "dive plan"? Tech, and especially expedition, divers know this and leave nothing to chance. Why should open water divers, even beginning ones, be any different.

If anything due to their lack of experience and training they should be the ones with the most detailed plans.

An open water dive with newer divers IMO carries as much risk to the poorly prepped diver as any expedition or tech dive. Expedition and tech divers have years of experience and training to fall back on if something is overlooked in the plan and can compensate for it with a variety of solutions they have ingrained in their minds and muscles. New and newer divers do not have that luxury.

As such they need more detailed plans and need to discuss contingencies and the what if's in much greater depth. The problem is they are not told that.

Be back with 500 PSI, listen to the briefing, stay with the DM, do a final check with your buddy, and talk to your buddy about the plan is often the most they are told. But they are not told how to make sure they come back with 500 psi using gas management, what to consider about the briefing and use it to make their own dive plan, that the DM is not their buddy and may lead them into places they have no business being, and what to talk to their buddy about and how to make sure they both contribute to the dive plan.

They are also not taught the history of the buddy system and what the basis for it is and why it is so important. It is carefully put across as being for safety but that is sometimes lost in the hype of it being for meeting people, going places together, etc.. They are not told that it's to decrease the risk of a diver ending up being a bloated corpse being pulled alone from the water.

I see it all too often when instructors talk about the buddy system and then seemingly do everything in their power to demonstrate how unimportant it is. From not discussing the real risks of serious injury and death, to not buddying divers up in the pool in clear well defined teams, to leading them single file on checkout dives. Nothing is going to do more to decrease the importance of the system than showing them in no uncertain terms on their very first open water dives that it is nothing more than lip service. By not insisting that they stay in proper position the first time they are in the water they are saying "this is what we said but we really didn't mean it."


And again I think it's because they themselves don't know, understand, or appreciate the system for what it is and why. It's as if it was something they were told they had to say in their instructor course and that's why they do it.


What I would do if I were the OP is swallow my pride and get with an instructor who will tailor a class or workshop and not mince words or sugar coat the stuff he needs to know. Then I would see that I took that information and put it to use as soon and as often as possible. I'd start to be more choosy about dive buddies and make sure they understood what was expected of them and we would discuss what we would do in the event we got separated. Reason being is that every situation is different and the generic "look for one minute then surface" BS that is suggested is often nothing more than an "out" for poor planning and skills.

What if the divers cannot surface right away due to boat traffic or some other issue? What if they can hear their buddy but not see them? What if they had a clear plan to meet at the goal if they did get separated? All of these things would possibly negate the "one minute rule". But if they did not discuss this in detail and have a firm plan someone could follow the rule and end up hurt. It is easy to see a diver getting stressed and focusing on the rule, with no regard for the risks in using it, and surfacing into a boat prop or other danger.

If they had a clear plan that covered the situation and what they would do that risk could be seriously reduced or eliminated. IF they were using proper buddy procedures such as everyone swims no faster than the slowest diver, no single file swim crap, no more than a 1/4 turn of the head to locate your buddy, lights, and touch contact when vis went down or current increased then the separation would not have to occur in the first place. And barring a catastrophic event of some type, the separation protocol would not even come into play. But it would still be part of the plan.

But we go right back to the divers not knowing or even considering it if they have not been taught how. And why. It is very easy to cover this in a short time in the classroom. Takes maybe two to three hours to go over all of it that is needed for open water divers in real detail. What takes a little longer is putting it into practice in the pool and in open water. The result of doing it is divers who are more knowledgeable, more confident, more skilled, and as a result safer. The end result of this is divers who enjoy what they are doing and dive more often.

Parts of the industry are putting the cart before the horse in focusing on getting people to get in the water fast and hopefully enjoy it enough to become safer and more accomplished. They hope that they won't get hurt or get the crap scared out of them and drop out. But still many do and so numbers are needed to replenish those who fall. Much like a Banzai charge. You decide a certain number are expendable and are ok with that as long as you can replace them. But there will come a point when those replacements will look at the carnage around them and think "not me buddy!" Then what do you do? I say use a little more thought, spend a little more time, train them better, and use those who would have previously dropped out to attract new ones who will also stick around.

Matt, I think will stick around. But he will have more fun and be a better diver if he addresses the issues that led to these last couple incidents. And he needs to find someone to help him do that and listen to what they say. As should anyone who is having issues like this.
 
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If a missing buddy is a common situation something is seriously wrong (...).

Jim, I could not agree more, in fact I agree with pretty much your entire post. Buddy separation is the fault of the divers, not the crew, no question about that. The point I was making is a different one.

I may of course be wrong, but from Matt's post, it sounded like for the crew, this situation was not the first one and they didn't think that lost buddy was an emergency because it happens all the time on their charter, albeit each time with a different couple of vacation instabuddies. I agree that it is the divers' fault for not following the protocol, but if I were a boat captain, and I saw a recurring pattern of this sort, I would try to put a protocol in place to make communication more efficient.

If it ever happen to me that my wife was lost, and I surfaced 10 minutes from the boat, my top priority would be to communicate to the crew that she is lost and that they need to begin search, and whether it is a common pattern or not would be completely irrelevant. Inconveniencing the crew would be the last thing on my mind when he life might be at stake. Depending on the situation, if I found myself outside of the shouting distance, I migh signal NOT OK to have the boat or someone from the boat approach me, so that the message can be delivered as quickly as possible to whoever I meet first. Swimming for 10 minutes until I reach the boat does not sound like fast enough, and it is not at all obvious to me that this is the right answer in every possible scenario. I can see how in the situation that Matt described, it might have been ambiguous if he could not really be sure that the boat can hear him screaming.

The divers need to get better training, but putting a distressed vacation diver in front of such a dilemma does not sound right, either. If this is happening all the time, clearly a protocol is lacking and better signaling system should be developed. This unless, of course, signaling OK and swimming for 10 minuts to the boat is always the right answer in any circumstances, which is far from obvious.
 
Matt got lost underwater, lost his buddy, and then required a "rescue" by the boat crew..

He did????

I thought he and his buddy lost each other. He kept his head, followed proper safety procedures, which was circling underwater for a minute, then he surfaced and waved at the boat for help. Then at that point Matt was faced with what everybody who is actually in a situation instead of reading from a book has to face and that is dealing with the unique circumstances that every incident will have and making decisions on the fly. Matt isn't an EMT, a police offer, and dive instructor or anybody else with training and working professionally every day dealing with emergencies. He's just a guy on a dive that suddenly took a turn and he's doing his best to cope and deal with it as he can.

Meanwhile, his douche bag dive buddy is sitting on the boat watching it all unfold, watching the captain hailing Mark, not opening his pussy mouth for an instant to step in and tell the captain, Marks probably looking for me, since we got separated and I like a A-hole just abandoned him, swam to the boat and never said a single solitary word about me losing my buddy to anybody while Mark for all I know was trapped underwater dying.

The only thing different you should have done Mark beside discussing more things with your instant buddy prior to the dive, was to stop that captain in the middle of his 'lesson' and explained to everyone on the boat, that your dive buddy abandoned you at the end of the dive and you were dealing with a lost buddy scenario the best you could and put the blame on your jerk of a dive buddy where it fully belongs. If the captain didn't like that you should have just told him to go do what he's paid to do, drive the boat and shut up.
 
And that is part of the dive plan. Finding out what signals the crew expects you to use for such situations. The best way to do that is when they ask if there are any questions at the end of the briefing. You say yes, this is the plan my buddy and I have, we have decided that this is what we will do in this situation. What is your preference and what do you expect from us as a signal if "xyz" happens? If they do not ask for questions then you speak up and say before you go we have a question and ask it. That is also part of your overall plan and should actually be written down on a checklist of some type. I seriously doubt that any DM, Mate, or Captain is going to have a problem with that. In fact they are likely to really appreciate it and give you a bit more leeway on the dives. If they do have a problem or show irritation with doing something like that I'd not book any more dives with them.
 
When I was back on the boat my buddy came up to me and asked me if I was okay. I said I was fine. He told me that when he signaled me with his noise maker, he saw me look around. He was holding onto a coral outcropping. But I didn't see him. Then he saw me swim off in the wrong direction, away from him. So he swam back to the boat.
So did Joe tell them that you'd been separated? That may have been some of the anxiety the captain faced until he saw you and why he needed to know if you were OK. Periodically in the A&I threads a diver in trouble surfaces briefly, then slips below the water and later becomes a recovery statistic. So you can understand his concern.
I thought he and his buddy lost each other. He kept his head, followed proper safety procedures, which was circling underwater for a minute, then he surfaced and waved at the boat for help. Then at that point Matt was faced with what everybody who is actually in a situation instead of reading from a book has to face and that is dealing with the unique circumstances that every incident will have and making decisions on the fly. Matt isn't an EMT, a police offer, and dive instructor or anybody else with training and working professionally every day dealing with emergencies. He's just a guy on a dive that suddenly took a turn and he's doing his best to cope and deal with it as he can.
Matt also holds a Rescue card. One assumes there was some training affiliated with that in how to deal with these situations.

Meanwhile, his douche bag dive buddy is sitting on the boat watching it all unfold, watching the captain hailing Mark, not opening his pussy mouth for an instant to step in and tell the captain, Marks probably looking for me, since we got separated and I like a A-hole just abandoned him, swam to the boat and never said a single solitary word about me losing my buddy to anybody while Mark for all I know was trapped underwater dying.
How do you actually know that? It's not in Matt's narrative anywhere that I saw as quoted above. Which lead to my question.

The only thing different you should have done Mark beside discussing more things with your instant buddy prior to the dive, was to stop that captain in the middle of his 'lesson' and explained to everyone on the boat, that your dive buddy abandoned you at the end of the dive and you were dealing with a lost buddy scenario the best you could and put the blame on your jerk of a dive buddy where it fully belongs. If the captain didn't like that you should have just told him to go do what he's paid to do, drive the boat and shut up.
He's also "paid" by his boss to safely return with all the divers. And is responsible for them to the best of his ability during the dive. Again - we haven't determined that the buddy is a jerk. It actually sounds like the buddy followed the correct protocol - assuming he did alert the captain/crew that he'd lost Matt as soon as he could.
 
Oh hey, another Matt B pity party thread.

Matt - I don't know what the right answer is for you. Let's try a new one: I really think that what you need is a regular dive buddy that's compatible with your emotional needs and who has the ability to mentor you into being a safe and competent diver. The way you're doing it clearly isn't working. Perhaps trying something new is in order?
 
And that is part of the dive plan. Finding out what signals the crew expects you to use for such situations. The best way to do that is when they ask if there are any questions at the end of the briefing. You say yes, this is the plan my buddy and I have, we have decided that this is what we will do in this situation. What is your preference and what do you expect from us as a signal if "xyz" happens? If they do not ask for questions then you speak up and say before you go we have a question and ask it. That is also part of your overall plan and should actually be written down on a checklist of some type. I seriously doubt that any DM, Mate, or Captain is going to have a problem with that. In fact they are likely to really appreciate it and give you a bit more leeway on the dives. If they do have a problem or show irritation with doing something like that I'd not book any more dives with them.

True. I, for one, will definitely negotiate the lost buddy signal next time I'm on the boat.

Aside from Matt's overly emotional interaction with the crew back on the boat, which I agree was not optimal...

I would like to also respond to all the posts blaming Matt for inefficient communication. I claim that the protocol he followed was, in fact, optimal.

Whether he should respond OK or NOT OK seems to depend on how far he was from the boat. If he was within a shouting distance, he should have signaled OK and explained what happened, as the crew suggested. If he was not within a shouting distance, I think he should have signaled NOT OK so that the boat or the crew can approach immediately, and so that he can deliver the message in a timely manner. I know I would definitely want to do so if the lost buddy were my wife, and therefore I should do so for every other buddy.

Matt did not know which was the case, so he could not have signaled either without gathering more information first. He therefore engaged in one round of verbal communication with the boat, during which he established that he was, indeed, close enough. Then, he signaled OK.

His actions up until that point were perfectly rational. Matt has traded 10 seconds to eliminate uncertainty and decrease the risk that his message would turn out to be inappropriate if he had guessed wrong. If the buddy was really missing and he signaled OK, the crew would have wasted 10 minutes before they begin search. If the buddy was not missing and he signaled NOT OK, the crew would begin rescue for no reason, waste time and resources and ruin the boat schedule.
 
Matt,

Focus on what people are actually asking or telling you. Don't add your spin to the meaning, take directions at face value. I've never had to guess at directions given by ANY boat captain.

You shouldn't have been asked if you were OK. YOU should have initiated communication with the boat starting with a big two-handed OK sign until you saw that you were seen. This particular sign lets everyone know that you are stable enough on the surface and sufficiently composed to be able to hold and maintain both arms out of the water. Boat reads this as: NO SURFACE RESCUE NEEDED. Had they started one, and your buddy was in trouble on the bottom, you just wasted their best resources.

After being seen, extend both arms straight out to your sides and raise your index fingers up in a big arc until they both meet over your head. Follow this with a palms-up sign, again, high over your head. Repeat cycle as needed. Now it becomes the boat's responsibility to tell you that your cut-and-run buddy is safe on his SI. Doing all this would have put you in need of nothing more than an ocean tow and a nice tip for the swimmer.

Either let go of the need to over-think and control every situation or find something else to do.
 
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Matt isn't an EMT, a police offer, and dive instructor or anybody else with training and working professionally every day dealing with emergencies. He's just a guy on a dive that suddenly took a turn and he's doing his best to cope and deal with it as he can.
He's a physician. Presumably he has some training in dealing with emergencies.
 

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