In Coz: You, Your Buddy, Your Group and Your DM. Who should do what?

[mahjong]

Funny thread. Looking to resolve the Coz conundrum on the sly. Bottom line is that Coz is advanced diving. Period. On easy days, of which there are many, non-advanced divers slide by and feel fantastic at having done so.

But all divers need to be reflexively and honestly aware of their experience level. If a beginning-ish diver gets on a boat with advanced divers and there is only one DM/guide, then those beginning-ish divers are taking a risk. I think it was "Mike" the 'Freakonomics' whiz who presumed to make a mockery of parsing boats to accommodate different diver levels. However, one doesn't need to parse boats. An operator needs only to add to one boat another DM/guide. I have seen on many occasions a single boat with multiple DM/guides. Beginners go with one DM/guide, more advanced divers with another. In Mexico, if not most places on the planet (except perhaps the US, where most boats don't even provide DM/guides unless you individually hire one), this doesn't send the cost of diving spiraling to freaky proportions. DM/guides rely on tips, even if, as one DM/guide told me, the most high maintenance divers tend to leave the smallest tips. Adding a DM/guide gives that DM/guide an opportunity to make some money from tips. It doesn't jack for everyone the cost of diving.

In Coz, esp, any beginning diver who enters the water as part of a group with advanced divers and a single DM is only asking for trouble. It is the beginning diver's responsibility to make sure, before the boat leaves the dock, that the situation on the boat is right for his/her diving level. Economics only ensure that the DO 'might' indeed be willing to leave the dock in a situation that might not be right for you.

Dive only with other divers at your approximate level, and with a guide who is managing ONLY a group of divers at roughly the same experience level.

This is especially true if you are a beginning-ish diver and diving in Cozumel.

 

[Brules]

Bottom line is that Coz is advanced diving​

I agree whole heartedly.....almost every single 1st dive is beyond PADI AOW diver limits lol......hell even the Deep cert wouldn't let you do Devil's Throat, and I did that on my 2nd or 4th dive in Cozumel in 1996.

Toss in the walls, swim throughs, currents, crazy currents.....

Yet it is consistantly called and labeled "easy" diving for the new diver.

I really am suprised more people don't die there. :amazed:

 

[mahjong]

"Yet it is consistantly called and labeled "easy" diving for the new diver."

This is where economic compulsions depart from what might be in any individual's best interest. I have never been to a dive destination that wasn't concerned about selling itself to as large a diving constituency as possible. Why not? Esp AFTER they ask you to sign the release.

 

[Mike]

If a beginning-ish diver gets on a boat with advanced divers and there is only one DM/guide, then those beginning-ish divers are taking a risk. I think it was "Mike" the 'Freakonomics' whiz who presumed to make a mockery of parsing boats to accommodate different diver levels. However, one doesn't need to parse boats. An operator needs only to add to one boat another DM/guide. I have seen on many occasions a single boat with multiple DM/guides. Beginners go with one DM/guide, more advanced divers with another. In Mexico, if not most places on the planet (except perhaps the US, where most boats don't even provide DM/guides unless you individually hire one), this doesn't send the cost of diving spiraling to freaky proportions. DM/guides rely on tips, even if, as one DM/guide told me, the most high maintenance divers tend to leave the smallest tips. Adding a DM/guide gives that DM/guide an opportunity to make some money from tips. It doesn't jack for everyone the cost of diving.

Here's the problem with that scenario. You're either sending your boat with newbie divers and experienced divers to Paradise reef every day where the newbie divers are safe as kittens and the experienced divers are bitching every day about the boring dive sites the dive op keeps sending them to, or you're sending your boat to Palancar Deep where the newbie divers are floating in the water column at 40 feet wondering what they are supposed to be looking at, while the experienced divers are having a ball.

Aqua Adventures on Isla Mujeres does the parsing thing putting experienced and newbie divers on the same boat to the same site with different dive masters, they do it because of a lack of a 2nd boat and not enough divers to fill two anyways so you end up on dumbed down dive sites in the morning any day they have newbies or instruction going on, and 6 out of 7 days a week the after noon dive you end up diving 30ft Marchones II and falling asleep. I'm done diving with them because of this.

Mayan Divers in West Bay on Roatan is now doing the same thing. The groans became louder and more vocal from the 6 advanced divers as the week goes by and its the 2nd and 3rd time in a week when you hear you're going to turtle crossing again because they have two divers taking OW instructions on board.

I can't dive with them anymore either.

Divers in Cozumel will quickly gravitate away from dive ops parsing divers. Experienced divers in Cozumel have dive sites they want to go on and if their dive op won't take them to them because they are parsing, they will go find a dive op who will.

 

[mahjong]

I think your response merely adds an exclamation point to the fact that Coz is an advanced diving destination, and that beginning divers are "matter out of place." Newbies are welcomed, of course, as their money is as good as the most advanced diver's. However, if some newbies on a boat can't be accommodated at most sites preferred by more advanced divers, then newbies don't belong in that diving situation. Again, Coz is advanced diving.

I have been to many places where a guide can lead newbies through a perfectly enjoyable dive that advanced divers can do both deeper and longer. If this tends to be a problem at Coz, well, then, no need to beat a dead horse.

Here's the problem with that scenario. You're either sending your boat with newbie divers and advanced divers to Paradise reef every day where the newbie divers are safe as kittens and the advanced divers are bitching every day about the boring dive sites the dive op keeps sending them to, or your sending your boat to Palancar Deep where the newbie divers are floating the water column at 40 feet wondering what their supposed to be looking at, while the advanced divers are having a ball.

Aqua Adventures on Isla Mujeres does the parsing thing because of a lack of boats and enough divers to fill two so you end up on dumbed down dive sites any day they have newbies or instruction going on.

I refuse to dive with them.

Mayan Divers in West Bay on Roatan is now doing the same thing. The groans became louder and more vocal from the 6 advanced divers the 2nd and 3rd time in a week when you hear you're going to turtle crossing again because they have two divers taking OW instructions.

I can't dive with them anymore either.

Divers in Cozumel will quickly gravitate away from dive ops parsing divers. Experienced divers in Cozumel have dive sites they want to go on and if their dive op can't take them to them, they will find a dive op who will.

 

[cvchief]

Seriously? I came to Coz after 4 crappy ow training dives. Well, really three crappy dives and one with a nice girl picking up the pieces. But that is another story. Maybe I am still dumb. ALL my diving have been in CZM since then, but is it really all advanced? I did the Eagle Rays in front of Palmas Reales in February. We got dropped a little short and I got a little freaked getting my ears worked out fast enough to hit the hole. That seemed a little advanced, but once I hit the hole and got a grip, it *seemed* easy.

I did the Devil's Throat and thought, seriously, that isn't a really big deal. At one point I thought I hoped my nephew could see the diver in front of him cuz I can't. Other than that, interesting, but not advanced.

Once I was in current that changed several times and we went back and forth over the same patch of reef. It was cool because there was a green moray in the middle.

Maybe I am missing it but where is the advanced part? Is diving elsewhere EVEN easier? Seriously maybe I just don't know better, but Cozumel seems to me to be dunk, ride the current, get out. What am I missing?

 

[cvchief]

I like that policy, but could see divers who would be affected by it and don't agree with it just moving on to the next dive op where they can save the money on the private DM. Perhaps such a policy should be island-wide, but could it be enforced? Also, 15 30' dives in a quarry in the past year still doesn't prepare one for downcurrents deep on a bottomless wall.

Moss, I never picked you for the island wide government mandate type....

 

[mahjong]

If you've only dived at Coz, then how can you possibly know what you might be missing? There is a world of interesting and exciting diving between remedial, safe Coz diving and advanced Coz diving. But that diving is NOT at Coz.

Seriously? I came to Coz after 4 crappy ow training dives. Well, really three crappy dives and one with a nice girl picking up the pieces. But that is another story. Maybe I am still dumb. ALL my diving have been in CZM since then, but is it really all advanced? I did the Eagle Rays in front of Palmas Reales in February. We got dropped a little short and I got a little freaked getting my ears worked out fast enough to hit the hole. That seemed a little advanced, but once I hit the hole and got a grip, it *seemed* easy.

I did the Devil's Throat and thought, seriously, that isn't a really big deal. At one point I thought I hoped my nephew could see the diver in front of him cuz I can't. Other than that, interesting, but not advanced.

Once I was in current that changed several times and we went back and forth over the same patch of reef. It was cool because there was a green moray in the middle.

Maybe I am missing it but where is the advanced part? Is diving elsewhere EVEN easier? Seriously maybe I just don't know better, but Cozumel seems to me to be dunk, ride the current, get out. What am I missing?

 

[cvchief]

I certainly don't know what I am missing, I agree. I hear in other places you have to ..... swim.....? I mean really? Sounds hard. I only swim in Cozumel to take a picture. The question I was raising though was is Cozumel REALLY an advanced destination? Really?

Honestly, what I have been doing is "advanced"? I mean I know I make it look good, but advanced?

I haven't done rescue yet. I thought about doing it in Annapolis to avoid spending too much Vacay time on it, but it might be cold and I might have to wear a wet suit...... so I don't know.....

 

[Brules]

Seriously? I came to Coz after 4 crappy ow training dives. Well, really three crappy dives and one with a nice girl picking up the pieces. But that is another story. Maybe I am still dumb. ALL my diving have been in CZM since then, but is it really all advanced? I did the Eagle Rays in front of Palmas Reales in February. We got dropped a little short and I got a little freaked getting my ears worked out fast enough to hit the hole. That seemed a little advanced, but once I hit the hole and got a grip, it *seemed* easy.

I did the Devil's Throat and thought, seriously, that isn't a really big deal. At one point I thought I hoped my nephew could see the diver in front of him cuz I can't. Other than that, interesting, but not advanced.

Once I was in current that changed several times and we went back and forth over the same patch of reef. It was cool because there was a green moray in the middle.

Maybe I am missing it but where is the advanced part? Is diving elsewhere EVEN easier? Seriously maybe I just don't know better, but Cozumel seems to me to be dunk, ride the current, get out. What am I missing?

Yes, Devils Throat, as easy at it seems is quite advanced, you can hit 130+ easily if you pop out and hit the shelf to look over the drop off......that is seriously deep on air and getting into NARC zone......same with the walls, a diver can VERY easily drop below 90' as with no bottom there is no visual reference for how deep you really are, and with new/really inexperienced divers, they can drop deep, quickly and never know it.

Example, last year in 2011, we were on one of the walls down south, doing swim throughs, we are on the wall side for a while, DM in front, and I look down, and some ninny female diver and her idiot boy toy boyfriend are below me a GOOD ways and I was at 110' watching my computer like a hawk. They had NO clue and I had to tank bang to get the DM's attention so he could go get them. They had to be at 130+ easily and never batted an eye, OR checked their consoles.

One of them could have easily had an issue, gotten narc'd and started the plunge in a matter of seconds with nothing to be done.

So yeah, Coz is advanced, compared to FL where there are no walls that drop off to 1500' straight down for miles and miles......

My only issue is most DM's I have dove with don't treat it as advanced and allow people to do some seriously stupid stuff lol - with very little butt chewing/correction on the surface for fear of ruining a tip.....

PADI Dive Limits:

OW - 20m
AOW - 30m
Deep Diver - 40m

So technically speaking, yes, it is advanced. Quite......and yet shops/dm's take old people, fat people, kids, new divers to 60-120' with not a thought in the world.