I've decided on an Apeks XTX50 or 200 - help with the specific package details

[filmguy123]

Hi guys, I know there's a million reg threads and I've received much good advice. However I have some specific questions in regards to the Apeks kit I've settled on for a number of reasons - and am now only wondering about packaging this kit in a final form.

My girlfriend might be getting the same kit as well, so I may be able to sweeten a package deal by buying 2 sets.

As I understand, the Apeks XTX50 and XTX200 only sell together as a kit and come bundled with the "XTX50" or XTX200 first stage, which is a FSR or DS4 style first stage. Yet many recommend going to the 5-port swivel turret "DST".

How does this work when buying a kit? Can't seem to find a bundle that has the DST. And then I see they also have an Apeks 5 port adaptor kit...

Want to make sure to get the desired first stage bundled together.

Next, it seems retail for the XTX50 kit is $575, but a doubles kit (before negotiating a deal) is $1150 - so $575 for each 1st stage/2nd stage kit. But then also includes about $100+ worth of hoses and $50+ SPG - so a sweeter deal, especially if negotiated down (something like this):

DS4/XTX50 Doubles Package - Dive Right in Scuba


Finally, I'd want to snag a DIN to Yoke adaptor.

What's the most effective way to bundle this and make sure I get the first stage I want? Any specific parts or pieces to look out for when I order to make sure I don't get the wrong part number?

I was thinking the following:

• 1x Apeks XTX200 second stage (my primary) - also open to the XTX50 but was thinking the dual porting might be nice for future SM or tec options down the road in a few years
• 3x Apeks XTX50 second stage (My GF's primary and her octo, plus my octo)
• 2x Apeks First stages... the bundled "XTX50 first stage"(?) VS the DST first stage, and how to buy the right bundle or kit that has this? VS a 5-port adaptor, etc.? My GFs could be a DS4 or whatever, but for mine I'd like to get the 5 port swivel turret
• 1x SPG (my GF already has one to use)
• 2x full sets of hoses (mine + my GF's) - I want MINE to be GUE/DIR compliant. I think she'll likely stick to standard PADI but she might be open to swapping to the DIR philosophy here

 

[tbone1004]

why did you settle on Apeks? and why did you choose the 50 and 200? The second stages are identical except for some extra chrome on the 200

Only Apeks first stage worth buying is the DST as long as it has the 5 port conversion.

don't bother with the standard PADI hose routing, it's grossly inferior so try to convince her to go to standard hose routing. That said the regulator hoses can be the same just choose which one you use as a primary and how the secondary is routed.

I still don't really recommend Apeks, especially new, but since it appears you're buying from DRiS, just call Mike and ask him the best thing he can do for two sets of single regulator packages with XTX50/DST regulators

 

[filmguy123]

Not terribly sold on the 200 - the only consideration would be if they could get a higher discount on it, and because of the option to port the hose from either side (200 has dual porting) if I later want to use it as part of a more complicated setup. Not worth it even there?

That's one of the main problems - at least from what I can tell in my convos, the XTX50/DST doesn't come as a kit. The kit pricing is with whatever they deem the "XTX50 first stage". Do getting it with the DST then require going piece meal and foregoing the standard discounted kit pricing there?

RE: The 5 port conversion, I understand I can add this later with $50 kit and theres no benefit to doing it initially if I am not going to need it out the gate...?

Thanks for all your help!!

 

[akdeepdiver]

Are you set on brand new? I have a bunch of like new tx50 1st, 2nd, Octo setups for $300 plus shipping. Pm me if interested.

 

[tbone1004]

who told you the 200 is the only reversible second stage? Every Apeks XTX series regulator is reversible. They use identical casings and important guts to the regs. 40's and down don't have the adjustment knob but those can be added later, but the regs themselves are identical. If you remove the faceplate and the tag on the top of the housing, it is impossible to distinguish which reg model it is from the parts alone.

You will likely never need to use the reversing feature. It is useful if you have bottles on the left and want a straight to mouth hose routing, which is not ideal because you want them behind your neck so they can't be ripped out. It is also useful for bottles on the right side for decompression or stage bottles and you want them to route behind your neck *which I like them for*, which are not part of the DIR/GUE philosophy, but in sidemount can be convenient. It is not recommended to reverse a long hose regulator because it will force it to cross under a diver in an air sharing scenario so I don't recommend it. I use Poseidons which are non-directional so I have some weird hose routing of my long hose compared to everyone else, but for normal Scubapro style second stages, reversing is not something used in most scenarios. Convenient to have, and super nice for oxygen regs imho, but not for backgas.

The DST comes with the XTX50 as one of the first stage options, it is either the DST or DS4. Regarding the 5th port. It is not needed for sidemount and I think it is actually more problematic to use them despite what the Razor guys say about it, however for backmount it creates much better hose routing, especially in doubles, so I consider it required if you are purchasing for backmount.

DS4/XTX50 Single Tank Package - Dive Right in Scuba
they should be able to swap the DS4 out for the DST as well as put the 5th port upgrade on them when you buy them from the get go if you are going that route.

Frankly, if @akdeepdiver has those regs for $300 with DST first stages, I'd just buy those. The first stages are identical, and the important parts of the second stages really haven't changed. The cases are a little bit smaller on the newer ones, but for less than half of what they go for new, I think it's a pretty good deal.

For Sale - Apeks regs
Here are some Yoke Apeks regs. The Zeagle is actually an Apeks TX50 and while it isn't sealed, you can purchase the sealing kits for not much money.
For Sale - Apeks ATX50 DST $195 shipped
Also has another TX50 set, so maybe make an offer on all 3 of them and you can find an extra octo somewhere for pretty cheap. Puts you all in for about $500 if he is willing to come down for a package deal with all 3x firsts and 3x seconds.

Check ebay out too, they are around.

 

[filmguy123]

good info!! thank you for all this.

What are the differences between the XTX50, TX50, ATX50? Little confused by all the hyper similar model names there.

 

[stuartv]

Regarding the 5th port. It is not needed for sidemount and I think it is actually more problematic to use them despite what the Razor guys say about it, however for backmount it creates much better hose routing, especially in doubles, so I consider it required if you are purchasing for backmount.

Why do you feel like the 5th port is required for backmount single tank?

Is it just for the possibility that you would eventually start diving doubles? How often does it happen that someone starts diving doubles and adds onto their existing single tank reg set, for doubles, versus buying a doubles reg set? I know I bought a second reg set, when I switched to doubles, and kept my single tank reg set for when I dive single tanks (i.e. any time I fly to dive). But, maybe I'm unusual in this regard.

 

[tbone1004]

Apeks regs 101:this ignores the flight, which shouldn't be looked at because it uses proprietary regulator hoses which is completely idiotic

Second stages:
TX-oldest of the three models
ATX-"new" as of 2002 ish I think. Upgraded case design and a few tweaks to the guts-nothing major and they still use the same parts kits
XTX-newest as of 2010ish maybe? New case with user changeable exhaust T's and the bodies are reversible with no tools required except for an adjustable wrench to remove the hose and heat sink

-20 and -40: base regulator, no user adjustment knob but otherwise identical to the -50 models. The -20 has a plastic retaining nut instead of metal, so if you're diving in cold water, get the -40.

-50 -100 -200: same as the -40 but with the user adjustment screw on the side. The -100 and -200 have chrome on the faceplates, and are a little "blingier" but other than that, the guts themselves as well as the case are all identical.

Cases and guts are all identical from -20 to -200, in their respective series, and all parts kits for -20 to -200 and TX to XTX are all the same. Apeks basically has 2 parts kits, one for first stages, and one for second stages. Which is SUPER convenient and I'm not aware of any other mfg that has this flexibility across their range.

First stages:
These haven't changed at all throughout the years.
US4: base first stage and comes with the -20 models as it is the unsealed version of the DS4, so great for pools and what not to save a bit of money
DST: comes standard with the -40 and one of two choices with the -50. This is their best first stage and has been copied by many different companies albeit the other companies have greatly improved on it, mainly using PVD instead of Chrome for a much more durable design and making the 5th port standard
DS4: great first stage, only one HP port, and no swivel. This is the other stock first stage with the XTX50. Great for stage bottles
FST: comes with the -100's. I don't like this first stage, it's a strange design, don't buy it
FSR: comes with the -200's, it's less bad than the FST and better than the DS4 if you want a fixed port first stage, but not my first choice
Tek3: stupid regulator for anything but stage bottles. It is a DS4 with 3 LP ports and 1 HP port on one side. They say it's for doubles, but the DST routes better

Regarding the question about the 5th port. I think the best single tank hose routing comes from using the left post hose routing from a set of doubles and adding the long hose to the swivel turret. The one big downside is use of a drysuit with a single first stage, but if you are diving wet, I think this is the best hose routing for backmount singles.

 

[runsongas]

tx50 is a slightly larger casing and a few parts are different compared with the atx50/xtx50 2nd stages. the older dst on the tx and atx series has an annoying 1/2 inch lp port that you will need to get an adapter or plug for. good news is all the 2nds and firsts still take the same service kit.

 

[runsongas]

tx casing is definitely not the same as the atx/xtx. it is slightly larger and uses a different diaphragm.

the zeagle tech50d is a rebadged tx50 without the heat exchanger

the older first stages had one 1/2 inch lp port for the primary

the FST has pretty good routing for single tank backmount.

tek3 works decently for doubles if you don't cross your lp hoses in back.

Apeks regs 101:this ignores the flight, which shouldn't be looked at because it uses proprietary regulator hoses which is completely idiotic

Second stages:
TX-oldest of the three models
ATX-"new" as of 2002 ish I think. Upgraded case design and a few tweaks to the guts-nothing major and they still use the same parts kits
XTX-newest as of 2010ish maybe? New case with user changeable exhaust T's and the bodies are reversible with no tools required except for an adjustable wrench to remove the hose and heat sink

-20 and -40: base regulator, no user adjustment knob but otherwise identical to the -50 models. The -20 has a plastic retaining nut instead of metal, so if you're diving in cold water, get the -40.

-50 -100 -200: same as the -40 but with the user adjustment screw on the side. The -100 and -200 have chrome on the faceplates, and are a little "blingier" but other than that, the guts themselves as well as the case are all identical.

Cases and parts kits are the same for all second stages, -20 to -200, and TX to XTX.

First stages:
These haven't changed at all throughout the years.
US4: base first stage and comes with the -20 models as it is the unsealed version of the DS4, so great for pools and what not to save a bit of money
DST: comes standard with the -40 and one of two choices with the -50. This is their best first stage and has been copied by many different companies albeit the other companies have greatly improved on it, mainly using PVD instead of Chrome for a much more durable design and making the 5th port standard
DS4: great first stage, only one HP port, and no swivel. This is the other stock first stage with the XTX50. Great for stage bottles
FST: comes with the -100's. I don't like this first stage, it's a strange design, don't buy it
FSR: comes with the -200's, it's less bad than the FST and better than the DS4 if you want a fixed port first stage, but not my first choice
Tek3: stupid regulator for anything but stage bottles. It is a DS4 with 3 LP ports and 1 HP port on one side. They say it's for doubles, but the DST routes better

Regarding the question about the 5th port. I think the best single tank hose routing comes from using the left post hose routing from a set of doubles and adding the long hose to the swivel turret. The one big downside is use of a drysuit with a single first stage, but if you are diving wet, I think this is the best hose routing for backmount singles.