Making weighting cheat sheet - assistance please.

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I know we've had his discussion before, but I still don't understand
Compression with depth makes it work. Using the old way, you check things out at the end of the dive. Each inch is about 1 to 1.5 pounds of weight needed. So, being eye level at the end of the dive means you're at least 4 pounds light that way as well. The difference? You get to check your weight before the dive rather than after the dive.
 
Hi ScubaJill,

There is so much variation in the buoyancy characteristics of wetsuits it's near on impossible to calculate the lift of one. Your right a dry wetsuit at the beginning of a dive will make you more buoyant, but not by much - less than the gas you're going to use during the dive. Suits lose some of their buoyancy as they get used.

Then there are variations in cylinder mass. I have 5 12Lt cylinders.
1 is 13.4kg
2 are 13.7kg
2 are 17kg
So when I dive the last 2 I remove 3.5kg from my weighting.

Don't believe dive operators that all their weights are the same. I've had light and heavy 1 and 2kg block. My own weight have the weights written on them, they range from 1.3kg to 1.7kg for what appear the same size.

The weight you gave for the torch. Is that the in-water or on-land value? If on-land it will have inherent buoyancy of 1kg for every litre of water it displaces. [the metric system is so much easier than imperial].

When you start diving in colder water you're either going to change to a dry-suit or a thicker wet-suit. Either way you will carry more lead and have to compensate or you'll be surfacing like a missile.

To sort your buoyancy why not dedicated a whole dive to playing round with the weights, not only find out how much you need, but by moving them to different locations you see how your trim is affected.

Air usage improves once you get your buoyancy sorted.

Carry on asking questions, it's the instructors who don't teach correct buoyancy I find annoying, not their students.
 
Hello Jill

I have a "cheat sheet" but it's pretty much a grid of exposure suit vs. configuration, like this:

----> No BC Singles Doubles
Rasher
3/2
3mm
7mm

Then if applicable I adjust for pony (stage) cylinders, and salt water.

Due to rounding and the overall imprecision of determining weighting, my chart can't quite be reduced to a formula. If I tried, it would be off by a couple of pounds here or there.

One of the problems to consider is that lead weights are typically somewhat underweight, and combined with that and the water they displace, their effect on buoyancy is only about 90% of their rated weight. Makes a difference if you're diving with 20# of lead.

And you put the additional weight you use in corresponding cells? Do you ever record the buoyancy of the tanks anywhere?
 
I need to put on a few more pounds to get down on the first dive of the day. That weight, if I choose to add it, becomes noticeable later in the dive. I think it has something to do with the wetsuit and being dry. I don't have this issue when I dive without a wetsuit. Or dives later in the day. The shallow dives are a separate issue.

I wonder if you might have air trapped under your wetsuit on the first dive that gets squeezed out. I find that if I let some water in at the neck, wrists, and ankles it helps. Of course that's harder to do from a boat. I mostly shore dive.

I do have a cheat sheet because I use a 2.5mm shorty, 3mm full wetsuit, a 3mm vest, and 2 different polyolefin full suits in various combinations for different temp conditions. Complicating the weight issue I use 2 different sized steel LP tanks and a regular aluminum 80.

I just took one tank with 500psi (13 cf) left in it and went chest deep out from a dock. I put on every combination and did a weight check with each. Very time consuming.

Then I made a table. For the different tanks I used an offset from neutral at empty for each tank. It seems to work pretty well.
 
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I think I'm going to do what you did with the different wetsuits and tanks. I personally would feel more comfortable knowing a good weight estimate for the different combinations.
 
I have a list at the end of the traveling version of my logbook (just the last 10 dives or so).
So far it has
5mm
5mm semidry
7mm
7mm with hooded vest
7mm with attached hood
4/3
4/3 with hooded vest
3mm shorty
3mm short with 1.5 full suit
10/14 hooded wetsuit
But there is also the tank used: Mostly Al80 or HP100 but I also have AL100, LP90, and a couple others
I have noticed that the thicker wet suits vary a lot in their buoyancy characteristics. Some absorb water fast and some do not. I have rented a few 5s and 7s and the 10/14 and the 7s vary a lot.
Oh, and there is fresh or salt water.
Oh and my fins are fairly light, but I have rented some that were heavier and sink faster.
But let's not forget the BCD, a rental BCD may have some different characteristics from your own.

For most of my diving offshore NC it is a pain to be light at the hangbar. So my weight checks for a new suit are done freshwater first in 4 ft at bout 500 psi or less. I then fine tune in the ocean.

I do not count my 19cuft slung pony so I am slightly heavy when I dive with it. But given I might pass it off or someday use it myself it as removable.

In a totally new situation in colder water with unknown BCD, finds, wetsuit, and a DM I usually trust their recommendation and then tune it on dive 2. For cold water dives they seem to be pretty good. Warm water I know what I need. It is usually less than they might recommend. But then I usually avoid guided dives in places like Keys reefs.
 
And you put the additional weight you use in corresponding cells?

I use a belt.

Do you ever record the buoyancy of the tanks anywhere?

All my primary tanks are neutrally buoyant, for planning purposes, when empty. Two of my four 120s are one pound negative but I disregard this.

I have a separate list of the adjustments for the three pony cylinders that I use (HP13, AL19, HP40). I've measured the buoyancy of each of these with a scale.
 
My instructor emphasized to use the BC only as needed and not to compensate for being overweighted.
I'm going to say that almost verbatim to my students in my next OW class to make that point (as I'm focused on buoyancy from the get go). Thank you for posting this question.
 
- If you want to be able to use all the air in your tank, you need to carry ballast for it. If you weight yourself based on getting out with 1000psi left, then you will become positively buoyant at your safety stop if you breathe your tank down below 1000psi.

I believe in weighting myself to be able to use all the air in my tank - just in case. As in, just in case something unforeseen happens and I stay down long enough to go into deco, for example. Or, even more likely, I used more gas than I expected. Maybe there turns out to be a current on the bottom and I suck more gas because of swimming harder than usual.

Assuming that you will have the weight of 1000psi (2# in an AL80) of your gas in your tank when you are doing your safety stop is, well, not what I would do.

- An AL80 has 6 pounds of gas. If you want to be able to use it all, you will be (at least) 6 pounds negative at the start of your dive. There is a slight difference in the weight needed, depending on whether you weight to be neutral at 15' or at the surface. Personally, I prefer to weight myself to be neutral at the surface. Weighting to be neutral at 15' means that if you accidentally ascend a few feet (and you're wearing a wetsuit that uncrushes a little bit), you will become positive and have to struggle to get back down to hold your safety stop. If that happens to me, I don't want to have to fight to get back down to 15'. Wearing a wetsuit and weighting to be neutral at the surface means that if I finish my safety stop with 500 psi in my tank, I will have a very tiny amount of air in my BCD. Which means if something happens before I'm ready to go the surface and I find myself at 7' and wanting to go back down, I can let that little bit of air out to get neutral, exhale deeply, and descend. And if I breathe my tank down to the last dregs, for some reason, I'll still be hovering comfortably at 15', not fighting to stay there.

- Corollary: If you are properly weighted with an AL80, you are 6# negative at the start of your dive. In that case, you absolutely should not have to fin down from the surface (assuming an empty BC). Particularly if you have thin or no exposure protection on. Thus, I agree with previous posters that you may be diving a bit underweighted. Or you may just need to pull open the neck of your suit, front and back, to burp it.

- A bigger tank holds more gas, so (if you're properly weighted), you will be more negative at the start of the dive. With a 100, you'll be a bit under 8 pounds negative. With a 120, you'll be 9. Roughly. It doesn't matter whether they are aluminum or steel, HP or LP. It's the weight of the gas that you will (possibly) use that matters. Again, assuming you want to be able to use all the gas you're carrying.

- So, once you have a baseline, changing tanks is just a matter of looking up the cylinder specs and comparing to your baseline, then adding or subtracting the appropriate amount of weight. If your baseline is an AL80 and you switch to a PST E7-100 HP100, the specs (for empty buoyancy) go from +4.4 (for the 80) to -1 (for the 100). The HP100 will be 5.5# more negative (than an AL80) when it's empty, so you can take 5.4# of weight off your rig to have the same buoyancy at the end of your dive as you would with your baseline. You can google scuba cylinder specifications to find various sites that have big lists of tanks and their specs. AL80s seem to be pretty much the same. Steel tanks vary quite a bit. E.g. the PST E7-100 is -1# empty, but the Faber HP100 (also a HP steel 100) is -7.26# when empty.

- If you take your wetsuits to a pool and use some weights to sink them, you can figure out what each one's buoyancy is. Then, as long as one suit is in your baseline, you can do the arithmetic to figure out weighting for each other suit. You could also do this experiment in a bathtub or plastic bin, if it's deep enough.

- For a drysuit, well, I took mine to a pool and put it on, then got in with nothing else on and kept adding more lead to a belt I was holding until it was enough to get me to sink below the surface. 10# wouldn't sink me, but 12# would.

- If you are diving in warm water with minimal exposure protection, you probably only need a BCD with around 20# (or less) of lift capacity. If the BCD you're using has significantly more lift than that (say, more than 30#), then it will make buoyancy control somewhat more difficult.

- I have had the experience before (first post-OW cert dive) where I got in for my first dive of the day and couldn't get down from the surface. My DM swam over and pulled the neck of my suit open, air burped out, and then I could get down. Now I know.

Bottom line: Tanks are a well known quantity. You just have to look up the specs. Your personal buoyancy and the buoyancy of your exposure protection are the only major variables. You can check those things in a pool (or maybe even your bathtub). You can even pretty easily find the info to convert those numbers from fresh water to salt water. I think it's something like things are 3 or 4% more buoyant in salt water (depending on the exact salinity of your location, of course) - but totally don't remember for sure. With the baseline info you already have, that will let you calculate estimates that are pretty close, for each configuration you want to use. If being a bit off and finding yourself overweighted by, say, 4 or even 6# makes your BCD the star of the dive, then your buoyancy control may not be as good as you think it is. :wink:
 
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ps. Lavacore claims to be neutral buoyancy. I've never had to add any weight to compensate for using my Lavacore, so I am inclined to treat it as neutral in planning.

I would not not count the weight of anything I might drop (e.g. lights or camera rig) during the dive. If you count lights as 2 pounds of ballast and then you accidentally lose it/them during the dive, do you want to be 2 pounds light at your safety stop?

You should try to setup your camera rig so it's neutral or close, anyway. Mine turns out to be pretty close to neutral with 1 strobe plus 1 video light. If my second strobe makes it annoyingly negative, I'll zip tie some pool noodle to the strobe arms (but I don't think it will).
 
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