Normal breathing pattern or holding breath?

[karlimmergut]

I may be wrong, but I thought that the very small pause should be when the lungs are empty, not when they are full... this is closer to natural breathing, and helps to ensure that enough air got exhaled to keep the dead air space to the minimum.

 

[spectrum]

I may be wrong, but I thought that the very small pause should be when the lungs are empty, not when they are full... this is closer to natural breathing, and helps to ensure that enough air got exhaled to keep the dead air space to the minimum.

I'm sure that will all vary with the individual.

Getting away from the airway topic If you are not getting anxiety (hyperventilating) or headaches (CO2 retention) you are probably fine with respect to pacing and breathing technique. A considerable pause can be perfectly comfortable if it is coupled with a deep breathing cycle. Again pause only with an open airway!

Pete

 

[Viron]

I am a bit surprised that no one mentioned a long deep breath on inhaling is NOT normal breathing.

The only thing I try to do a little different on breathing is exhale a little more fully than normal to get rid of as much of the dead CO2 rich air that triggers breathing, gagging, anxiety, panic, hyperventilation etc depending on the CO2 level.

The benefit is normal surface breathing with a modest inhalation, full exhalation and brief pause at end of exhalation is less air consumed per minute. My brother who has been diving for over thirty years regularly consumes just over .4cuft/min. As a new diver paying attention to breathing I gone below .4cuft/min in the pool on a 2 plus hour dive practicing important mundane skills like deploying safety sausage, removing, and replace equipment.

One your breathing is in control how big a tank is not near as big of a question.

 

[TMHeimer]

If you are pausing your respiration with your diaphragm while keeping your airway open you are all set. You can stop breathing but you must not hold your breath by closing your airway.

The distinction is subtlety left out of instruction to limit task loading. Here the message is don't stop breathing and don't hold your breath.

Pete

Right. Thus the reason for exhaling with an "ahhh" sound when doing the CESA skill. The instructor is then sure the airway is open. If your glottis is open you are fine-the "ahh" is only to be 1,000% sure. It's good to practice closing off both throat passages--mouth and nose. You should be fine with your normal breathing--I can't imagine anyone closing the airway after each breath while pausing. But I'm not a Dr.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I am a bit surprised that no one mentioned a long deep breath on inhaling is NOT normal breathing.

The only thing I try to do a little different on breathing is exhale a little more fully than normal to get rid of as much of the dead CO2 rich air that triggers breathing, gagging, anxiety, panic, hyperventilation etc depending on the CO2 level.

The benefit is normal surface breathing with a modest inhalation, full exhalation and brief pause at end of exhalation is less air consumed per minute. My brother who has been diving for over thirty years regularly consumes just over .4cuft/min. As a new diver paying attention to breathing I gone below .4cuft/min in the pool on a 2 plus hour dive practicing important mundane skills like deploying safety sausage, removing, and replace equipment.

One your breathing is in control how big a tank is not near as big of a question.

Actually long deep breaths are quite normal as long as they are not ridiculous. I had a student once check my respiratory rate while we were diving. He wanted to understand why when we were swimming at the same speed I seemed to use much less air. I swim very slow and what he realized was that while his breathing was between 15 and 20 breaths a minute, mine was in the range of 6-8 breaths per minute. Long, slow, easy breaths that also allowed me to use lung volume to control my buoyancy. It's also damn relaxing!

 

[Viron]

Actually long deep breaths are quite normal as long as they are not ridiculous....Long, slow, easy breaths that also allowed me to use lung volume to control my buoyancy. It's also damn relaxing!

That is correct long slow easy breaths. Just like you breath normally. When I first put a regulator in my mouth the tendency was as soon as the air started flowing in I let it flow until I was full. I never normally take deep full breaths.

Just think about this the next time you are relaxing and you have to sneeze or cough. For some reason our body is programmed to take in a full breath before sneezing or coughing.

Normal breathing is probably about 2/3 or less of full capacity. A pause after exhale is normal because it is the natural rest position of the diaphragm and lungs.

The one thing I purposely do is fully exhale a bit past the rest position much as you would when blowing out a candle. I want to get rid of all the dead CO2 air I comfortably can as CO2 is behind too many problems like short breathing (full inhalation without proper exhalation), anxiety, hyperventilation, gagging, etc.

 

[Gareth J]

I would recommend that you don't force a new breathing rate, or add pauses into your breathing pattern.

Skip breathing (any delays, breath holding, modufications to breathing rate) should be discouraged. Ending the dive with a headache is symptomatic of skip breathing or an unnatural breathing rate.

Discussions on breathing rates, are normally started by new divers trying to increase the length of their dive, normally after comparing their gas consumption with more experienced divers.

The biggest use of gas in new divers are:
* buoyancy adjustments
* to much weight
* not being relaxed (anxious).
* physical fitness
* moving to quickly

As a new diver completes more dives, normally, buoyancy adjustment improves, smaller adjustments and fewer adjustments.
As skills improve, people relax instead of worrying they start to enjoy the dive and their breathing rate drops to a normal "at rest" rate.

Most new divers are wearing far to much weight, despite instructors trying to reduce what they wear. As they relax, and buoyancy skills improve, weight can be removed, reducing work load, reducing air consumption.

Moving to fast, or attempting to try to move to fast underwater, reduces as divers relax and become comfortable with the environment.
Fitness will improve as you do more diving

Gareth

 

[Viron]

I would recommend that you don't force a new breathing rate, or add pauses into your breathing pattern.

Skip breathing (any delays, breath holding, modufications to breathing rate) should be discouraged. Ending the dive with a headache is symptomatic of skip breathing or an unnatural breathing rate.

Discussions on breathing rates, are normally started by new divers trying to increase the length of their dive, normally after comparing their gas consumption with more experienced divers.

The biggest use of gas in new divers are:
* buoyancy adjustments
* to much weight
* not being relaxed (anxious).
* physical fitness
* moving to quickly

As a new diver completes more dives, normally, buoyancy adjustment improves, smaller adjustments and fewer adjustments.
As skills improve, people relax instead of worrying they start to enjoy the dive and their breathing rate drops to a normal "at rest" rate.

Agreed.

The point I'm making is that many divers do NOT breath normally.

However, analyzing breathing at rest such as when laying down reading, etc can help one understand what normal breathing is. Exhaling completely underwater is NOT normal. Exhaling completely, or very nearly completely, is normal on the surface. Pausing 1-2 seconds after exhaling on the surface is normal. Exhaling 1-2 seconds longer than you take to inhale is normal. A full capacity or near full capacity breath is NOT normal. It is a sign of one or more the following exhaustion, oxygen deprivation, CO2 build up that can come from failing to completely exhale. All of which can lead to panic and anxiety, which generally makes bad situations worse.

Breathing is the single most important thing a diver does. It is worth talking studying, talking about, and applying. It is something that can usually be learned slowly through experience, or more quickly through deliberate thought and practice because what is done underwater too often is not normal. It is against sometimes very strong instincts to completely exhale and pause when breathing underwater. Yet that is part of the normal surface breathing pattern.

There are many experienced divers, including instructors and tech divers that wear water heater sized tanks that wear lots of lead that can't stay down as long as divers with aluminum 80s that have mastered the art of breathing NORMALLY underwater.

Have you ever noticed your doctor has to tell you take a deep breath, and there are deep breathing exercises. It is because deep breathing is not normal, but it is something
the cave man in you has you do underwater because it is normal to take a deep breath before putting your head underwater. But, you shouldn't deep breath doing scuba.

All I'm saying is that the is knowable science to apply to the art of breathing that can be learned quickly if done deliberately.

Thankfully, I've heard my brother for years talk about the science and art of breathing for years before I was ever talked into doing scuba myself.

For me completely exhaling underwater wasn't a problem. I have however had to give a little thought to not taking all the air the regulator will give to me. Yet, paying attention to breathing has allowed me to start out on my OW check out averaging a little below .7cuft/min and go below .4cuft/min while doing safety performance task in the pool. My highest consumption was trying swim to keep up with my brother while he reef crawled. My consumption shot up to 1.0cuft/min, which is 40% more than average consumption and over 200% of lowest consumption. Kicking legs need a lot more air than crawling arms, and the crawling arms are more effective in a stiff current. Two lessons good lessons on one dive.

 

[Viron]

It my humble opinion that PADI and other dive training certification organizations do a dis-service to those they certify by not spending more time on breathing through practical exercises to discover what normal breathing is by watching others and yourself during rest and daily life then comparing to what one does underwater.

The motorcycle riding industry has produced two well written books analyzing normal instincts that get motorcycles killed and the related physics. "A Twist of the Wrist I&II" deal with bad instincts and correct responses, and how physics applies to an accident or life saving response. Diving needs the same attention to the most important thing we do. Breathing.

The fact that seasoned divers including many instructors have WIDELY divergent air consumption suggest that breathing normal is not taught, yet it is the most important thing a diver can do.

 

[Subcooled]

1-2 second pause, then exhale...1-2 second pause

- If you manage to surface from 33ft (2 ATA) to 0 feet (1 ATA) in 1-2 seconds while holding your breath, then the gas in your lungs would expand two fold (and the lungs would rip). This is of course more likely with full lungs than with empty ones
- Same happens if you ascend from 100ft (4 ATA) to 33ft (2 ATA) in 1-2 seconds.
- Or from 230ft (8 ATM) to 100 ft (4 ATM)

As you can see, lung over expansion due to breath holding is mostly a problem at shallow depth.
At extremely great depths there are other problems related to breathing.

A smaller change than 2x is bad so you are indeed at risk in the shallows (the key is how much air there is in your lungs and how much will fit), but the general rule is simple: Slow down your ascent speed once you rise. Ascend very slowly near the surface, and you will be just fine.

A moderately slow and deep breathing pattern can calm down one and that could incur some real benefits. Just make sure that it feels natural and easy. Would it not be easier to pause with empty lungs only? That's what I have been doing 24x7 for 45 years now. It's called "normal breathing". Carbon dioxide retention (accumulation) is a problem if you do not ventilate enough so please do not overdo the pauses. Also do not hyperventilate. Moderation is good.