Oh What To Do.............sidemount Setup

[Just Paul]

Hi All,

I am a (relatively) experienced back mount diver, about to splash in to the world of Sidemount. I am looking for opinions to point me in the right direction on setup. The only thing holding me back so far was the thought of having to replace all of my beloved gear!

I have already narrowed the system down to Dive Rite Nomad LTZ, or xDeep Stealth 2.0 (and read many forums / reviews to get thus far). My question is over reg setup....

I already own a Hollis 500SE / DC7, which I love, but the (small and very cool) 1st stage unfortunately has yoke. I understand DIN is far better for SM, and I really don't want to have to buy more than is required, so first question is can I get it changed to DIN (not an adaptor)?

Once that bit is sorted (worst way buying a new 1st stage), are 2 X DC7's / 500SE's actually any good for SM? The (still small and still cool) DC7 has fixed ports, the manufacturer of course says it is perfect for SM setup but I'm not convinced yet.

If we decide this setup is NOT the way to go, then I have narrowed my choice down to:

-) Dive Rite Nomad XT reg set
-) Apeks 50 reg set
-) Hollis 212 / DC1 set

In my mind I prefer the first two choices, but I think the Apeks regs are fairly basic? I like the idea of having all Dive Rite kit if I go that way, but I'm honestly not sure about how good they are. I read good things, but they look a bit basic and bulky compared to the 212's?

So in summary (and well done if you've read it this far):

-) can I change a DC7 fitting
-) is it even worth considering the DC7's for SM
-) what are the thoughts on my alternative choices

Thanks buddies, looking forward to some conversations!

 

[tbone1004]

dc7 can be changed to sidemount, but I don't like the 500se second stages. Being in the UK, Apeks DST/XTX50 or ATX50 is a pretty easy thing to do. I dive with fixed port first stages, however they are not the best, given a choice I would go with rotating turrets.

I believe the Dive Rite regs are superior to the Hollis regs, and the Apeks set is similar level, but very expensive here in the US. You can purchase two sets of the Dive Rite regs for sidemount for the same price as the Apeks sidemount set. Why are you going sidemount, and which school of sidemount are you subscribing to, Mexico style *razor et al* or Florida style *nomad, SMS100 et al*? That may or may not influence your decision of regulators, but considering you're in the UK, depending on the price, I'd grab a set of used Apeks DST with ATX50 or XTX50 second stage regulators

 

[Just Paul]

Thanks for your reply tbone. Sounds like Apeks are incredibly expensive there!! Here the SM sets are about the same price as Dive Rite XT, around 800GBP (I guess that's about 1000USD).

Reason for going SM to be honest is just to try something new, not particularly for caving or anything. Every SM diver I speak to tells me they would never go back, so there must be something in it! I'm not subscribed to either of the two styles particularly, I understand one of the differences is Mexico style clips to the waist vs Florida style clipping to a butt plate. One thing I do read differing comments on is regarding the cylinders used. Mostly my diving will be dry in UK, with steel 12's. I believe the Dive Rite Nomad LTZ may be better suited to this than the xDeep Stealth?

 

[tbone1004]

they'll be similar, it really circles around finding an instructor that you like and agree with, preferably one doing similar diving to you. If they are the same price, hands down I would go Apeks DST/XTX50. Support local business as they're still made in the UK

 

[Phil_C]

Paul, I built a side mount rig for UK diving and went with the Diverite Nomad XT. I went for this so I had the lift because I dive with 12 lt. steel tanks and stages in a drysuit.

I also went with the Diverite ring bungee's and chokers for the same reason, it handles the steel tanks when I am out of the water with a steel to steel connection without any difficulty.

Because it is all modular you can swop and change harnesses etc. as you develop. I also added the optional weight plate because I found it stopped the wing tacoo'ing without the need for burgess, and also allowed me to better place some weight high up.

For regs I have ended up with quite a few, but originally went with Scubapro MK25's because they have the swivel and an end port to route a hose straight up from the 1st stage.

I have ended up with four MK25's (don't ask ) and three Atomic regs and first stages, and an Apex XTX50, but when I first built the kit I only had a single MK25 to use for the rig and that was Yoke. I was able to find a conversion kit in the US and import it and did my own yoke to DIN conversion on the MK25. It was straight forward, and provided you can get the manufacturers kit you should be able to do it for your reg. The problem I had is there is nowhere in the UK that will supply it unless you are a certified tech unless there is a supplier somewhere in the UK I missed.

So I originally started with an XTX50 one side, MK25 and SP Reg the other, and have finally swopped to two x MK25's.

So I would have no problem with UK diving side mount with the Nomad, I have used and quite like the XTX50. I haven't used the Hollis or Diverite Reg's.

Hope that helps - P

 

[Just Paul]

Paul, I built a side mount rig for UK diving and went with the Diverite Nomad XT. I went for this so I had the lift because I dive with 12 lt. steel tanks and stages in a drysuit.

I also went with the Diverite ring bungee's and chokers for the same reason, it handles the steel tanks when I am out of the water with a steel to steel connection without any difficulty.

Because it is all modular you can swop and change harnesses etc. as you develop. I also added the optional weight plate because I found it stopped the wing tacoo'ing without the need for burgess, and also allowed me to better place some weight high up.

For regs I have ended up with quite a few, but originally went with Scubapro MK25's because they have the swivel and an end port to route a hose straight up from the 1st stage.

I have ended up with four MK25's (don't ask ) and three Atomic regs and first stages, and an Apex XTX50, but when I first built the kit I only had a single MK25 to use for the rig and that was Yoke. I was able to find a conversion kit in the US and import it and did my own yoke to DIN conversion on the MK25. It was straight forward, and provided you can get the manufacturers kit you should be able to do it for your reg. The problem I had is there is nowhere in the UK that will supply it unless you are a certified tech unless there is a supplier somewhere in the UK I missed.

So I originally started with an XTX50 one side, MK25 and SP Reg the other, and have finally swopped to two x MK25's.

So I would have no problem with UK diving side mount with the Nomad, I have used and quite like the XTX50. I haven't used the Hollis or Diverite Reg's.

Hope that helps - P

More great advice, thank you Phil.

Interesting with the back plate, hadn't thought of that. Not too familiar with the whole bungee / choker thing yet, but I have a good technical instructor lined up so it will all become clear.

The only thing you have thrown me with now (!) is the Nomad XT you mention. I was only considering the LTZ which I believed was more than adequate. I have just checked and your XT shows 60lb of lift available, compared to LTZ of 35lb. Does this mean the LTZ will struggle?

 

[tbone1004]

I dive a Nomad XT, it is far from ideal as a sidemount rig. For what you are doing, thankfully you're in a drysuit, so i doesn't really matter which rug you use as long as it is comfortable and has enough lift. For a pair of 12l's filled to 300bar, you have about 10lbs of gas that you need to compensate for. Since you're diving dry, you have lift from the drysuit, so you're good there. The Nomad XT is designed around Florida cave diving where you need a boat load of lift because we are diving thin exposure protection with big steel tanks and it is impossible to dive a balanced rig.

 

[Phil_C]

The only thing you have thrown me with now (!) is the Nomad XT you mention. I was only considering the LTZ which I believed was more than adequate. I have just checked and your XT shows 60lb of lift available, compared to LTZ of 35lb. Does this mean the LTZ will struggle?

I dive a Nomad XT, it is far from ideal as a sidemount rig. For what you are doing, thankfully you're in a drysuit, so i doesn't really matter which rug you use as long as it is comfortable and has enough lift. For a pair of 12l's filled to 300bar, you have about 10lbs of gas that you need to compensate for. Since you're diving dry, you have lift from the drysuit, so you're good there. The Nomad XT is designed around Florida cave diving where you need a boat load of lift because we are diving thin exposure protection with big steel tanks and it is impossible to dive a balanced rig.

I built my rig myself in a modular fashion without having any side mount training (at first) so went with what I thought was going to work, and what was available to me. I already had Diverite harnesses, and rec wings, so it was just a case of changing wings and adding a buttplate and bungees, then later the weight plate.

The Nomad XT does seem a bit of a bull in a china shop approach as it is a lot bulkier than many others I have seen and some I had tried.

My personal reasoning at the time was that I was diving steels with stages or deco bottles so had somewhere around 6-7kg of gas. I added to that the potential loss of buoyancy of a thick neoprene drysuit at depth if it was compressed, then had a failure and it flooded (i.e. a failure at the start of the dive) and I wanted the re-assurance I had the lift to get me out of trouble in that worst case scenario.

I agree it was built for a different environment, but actually I don't think it really caters for that, because in a thin wetsuit, yes heavy tanks needs lift, but you have no redundancy so need to go to a twin bladder or carry a lift bag/large DSMB to give you an alternate means of lift if it all goes south (they do make a twin bladdered Nomad).

You will get plenty of individual recommendations for particular kit, the best advice, if you can , work out what lift you will need, see what rigs you can get easily where you are that provide that, and if possible borrow and try a few to get the feel of them. If you have found an instructor who can provide the kit for the course then hold off on buying until afterwards, it is probably worth the rental cost to try out different setups in the conditions you are going to dive, and then discuss with the instructor the why's and wherefore's of why he is using what he is using.

Best - P