PADI Junior Open Water Diver

[Jim Lapenta]

No there is no other test. All you need to do is wait until he or she is 15 and then let them take the AOW. They automatically get a regular advanced card. Otherwise they can upgrade but you end up paying for nothing but a piece of plastic. Jr OW divers can get a regular OW card at 15 but it doesn't involve any new skills, dives, etc. So if you want to pay 40 bucks or whatever it is for a card that does nothing more than acknowledge their age go for it. I'd personally let them dive with OW limits and get lots of experience. Then at 15 or 16 do a good AOW and let them get new skills and knowledge. Going that way it's likely they'll be light years ahead of any adult classmates taking AOW the week after OW. And really ready for new skills.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

Dive Depth Limits
The maximum depth for any Adven-
ture Dive is 30 metres/100 feet. For
12-14 year olds, the maximum depth
for any Adventure Dive is 21 me-
tres/70 feet. For 10-11 year olds the
maximum depth is 12 metres/40 feet.

PADI only has Standards for training dives; for non-training dives PADI "only" makes recommendations.

Once a diver reaches age 15, the training dive Standard for the diver's level of certification is the "basic" recommendation depth, but "experience" is another term used in the recommendations.

Since a 15 year old with Jr. AOW is not required to do anything other than "pay" for an AOW card, I have run into many 20-somethings that still only have a Jr. AOW card and an operator limiting depth to 70 feet for divers 15 and up is pretty rare, even just OW certified divers.

Jr. AOW and the Deep Adventure Dive are not allowed for 10-11 year olds; under 12 the recommendation is always no deeper than 40 feet.

If a 12-14 year old diver has completed Jr. AOW or the Deep Adventure Dive, the PADI recommendation is not to go deeper than 70 feet; 60 feet for Jr. OW divers without the Deep Adventure Dive.

On a Jr. AOW Diver's 15th b-day, the recommendation drops to no deeper than 100 feet; even though no training below 70 feet has ever happened.

V&B is the insurance company "in bed" with PADI. It is possible that V&B policies may limit PADI Pro's from exceeding the PADI recommendations.

From my previous research, I find no indication any other dive boat insurer limits certified divers with regards to depth, as long as the "dive leader" has training appropriate for the dive.

 

[cindivan]

That makes it more clear, sort of

I am not pushing my 12yo to do deep dives, but limiting a dive to 40 ft limits choices considerably. And the divemasters always say the rule is 40, but let us go to 60. Once we show them some of the dives he has done and they realize what a proficient diver he is, we never have a problem (he swims competitively and has fantastic buoyancy control). It's just mildly frustrating to deal with this every time we go diving.

I guess the issue is that there is not any specific rules, just recommendations. And some junior divers probably need to stay at the lower depths, while others are more proficient (just like adults!)

Thanks for your response.

 

[CRJScott]

A new complication?

In December I took my three daughters for AOW course, one was 13 so she is a Jr. AOW, the other two are 15 and 17. While we were there we were told the depths stated above were hard rules, probably insurance. My 15 year old had to call the first dive of the last day due to an ear problem and was unable to finish. We came back this week and were told all the rules just changed! I was told that the new instructor manual states no one under 18 may exceed 70 feet.

If that is true, why hasn't PADI changed its website? If it's not true the dive operator is lying! Is it possible that the operators insurance is different from the PADI standard?

Anyone with access to the new instructor manual?

Sorry to add to the confusion but thanks!

 

[Ste Wart]

Depth
For divers age 15 or older – 30 metres/100 feet

That is straight from the PADI Instructor Manual 2011 pg 58

 

[BrianKon]

PADI only has Standards for training dives; for non-training dives PADI "only" makes recommendations.

If a 12-14 year old diver has completed Jr. AOW or the Deep Adventure Dive, the PADI recommendation is not to go deeper than 70 feet; 60 feet for Jr. OW divers without the Deep Adventure Dive.

Yes, these numbers are correct. Standards apply to TRAINING dives only.

A new complication?

I was told that the new instructor manual states no one under 18 may exceed 70 feet.

Anyone with access to the new instructor manual?

Sorry to add to the confusion but thanks!

I can't find where it states that at all in the PADI manual. Do you know what agency they were referring too? They may have different standards. See quote above

I feel MISLED!

My whole life as an instructor I believed the depth limit for a PADI Junior Open Water diver aged between 12 and 14 was 12m/40ft!
I have found depth restrictions for certified Junior Open Water divers aged 10 and 11, but, please could someone tell me that my previous assumption on depth restrictions for 12-14 year old divers was right, and give me a sound reference for the law.

PLEASE!!!

The 12m/40ft limit is for all uncertified divers and Open Water Dives 1 and 2
also when conducting more than three dives in one day the maximum depth is 12m/40ft. Also the depth restrictions apply only to Training dives. The 70 feet limit is for the Deep Adventure Training dive.
____________

Now for the reality, I would not get too upset over a dive shop or DM being a little conservative. The depth limits were created because in a 10-11 year old, the ear canals are still being developed to a certain extent. If your 12 year old is a late bloomer, you might want to err on the side of caution. They will be older soon enough and the ocean isn't going anywhere. A 12 year old can dive with any certified diver over 18 years of age, doesn't even have to be a parent. And if he wishes could conceivably dive to the recreational limits. All certified divers are responsible for their own safety, you are encouraged to dive within your training and limitations otherwise you are taking unnecessary risks.

 

[BrianKon]

CRJScott,

DEPTH
For divers 15 or older - 30 metres/100 feet refers to the Adventures in Diving Program training dives. So, if you were told no one under 18 can dive beyond 70 feet, that would not be correct, unless they were stating another agencies standard.

The problem I see here really lies with liability, if a dive shop is bending the standards, it could be assumed that they bend all the standards and thus could expose them in a liability claim should someone get hurt.

 

[Peter Guy]

Also from the 2011 PADI IM:

Certification A diver earns certification (Positive Identifi cation Card - PIC) by demonstrating mastery of all course knowledge and skill performance requirements and fulfilling all other course requirements. For each certification, reinforce to divers that they are responsible for diving within the limits of their training and experience.

Some instructors on SB keep insisting that PADI rules only apply to training dives (I suppose this statement is made to absolve the instructor from following these rules) but I believe the above quotation shows that PADI believes the rules should apply to all dives. Of course there is no way to enforce the limits, but at least the instructor is admonished to "reinforce to divers" they are to dive within the limits of "their training and experience."

So, for the 10-11 year old -- 40 feet max and always with an appropriate adult supervisor.

For 12 - 14 year olds, 60 feet (OW) and 70 feet max --

Age — 12 to 14 Year Olds
Depth – Maximum 18 metres/60 feet for Junior Open Water Divers. Maximum 21 metres/70 feet for continuing education. After certifi cation – Must dive with an adult certified diver Responsibility and Risk – Parent/guardian and child sign administrative forms

But "The PADI Rules" DO limit the depth and conditions of all divers certified by PADI, however it is the responsibility of the Certified Diver to obey those depth and condition restrictions.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I have to agree with Peter here. Even though I left PADI at the DM level when I was doing the DM course I worked with perhaps 30 kids under 15 over the course of a year. The lake where we did the training has a max depth of 130ft. There is a wall that runs from 50 down to 90. We used to take our Jr AOW students there and stay above 70 ft. Now on this particular wall there is really no difference in it's appearance other than different rock formations down to 90 ft. My DM Instructor always stressed that whether it was in class or if I was just guiding dives 70 ft was the limit for Jr AOW divers. I interpreted the standards the same way. If I am acting as a professional in any capacity it should be my goal to model those standards and recommendations and reinforce them especially with Jr divers. So if PADI or my agencies now - SEI and CMAS- mandate 70 ft for Jr AOW training then I am going to stay with that any time I am with someone who has those recommendations and standards governing their dives. To do any different is unprofessional and unethical.

No different than my pet peeve with the buddy system and the way it is taught or not taught. If you say that a diver must always dive with a buddy and then do not reinforce that from the first pool session by insisting that buddies stay together, do all skills together, and then lead them single file on dives you might as well keep your mouth shut about it and not be a hypocrite.

 

[Walter]

But "The PADI Rules" DO limit the depth and conditions of all divers certified by PADI

I disagree. PADI (or any other agency) has no authority to make rules for anyone other than their members (Instructors, Assistant Instructors and Dive Masters). Their members must follow those rules to remain members in good standing. To gain a PADI certification, you must follow the rules laid down by PADI for their members to follow while conducting that particular class. If you are not in a class (unless you are a member - a certification does not make you a member), you have no obligation to follow rules PADI has outlined for their members or for any of their classes.