Replacing Seals Questions...

[Bigeclipse]

All,
I will first be attempting to replace my wrist seals and then my neck seal. They are latex and it is a trilam suit. I have the proper glue for the suit and I understand the basics of how to do both the wrist and neck...wrist seems a bit easier. This suit is well worn and I honestly do not care how it turns out as long as it does not leak Here are my questions:

1. What is the best way to remove seals? I do not know what the previous seals were glued on with (got the suit second hand). I have heard you can simply cut the seal off at the wrist and glue over what is left on the wrist cuff or you can try to rip off what you can by hand and then lightly sand as much of the rest off with out ruining the suit? This second part makes me a little nervous...I do not want to damage the suit. Any other methods to consider?

2. I will be using the DRIS glue. They said it will work on all trilam material. From what I can see, you prep all surfaces (toluene...etc.), place jar or bottle...etc..in cuff to help the process of gluing then you add a layer of glue to both the seal and wrist cuff...let dry...and then repeat and let dry. Then a third layer this time only getting tacky and then folding the seal onto the wrist cuff removing as much air bubbles as possible. Then it is advised to put a ring of aquaseal around the inside of the cuff where the seal meets the cuff. Anything else I should consider?

3. Someone suggested a traffic cone will help with the neck seal. anyone use this method? Similar to using jars in the wrist seals? Any other device I should consider for the neck seal? Again, this does not need to be fancy as long as it works and does not leak I really do not care. Thank you!

 

[boat sju]

I haven't done it myself yet but am getting to the point where I need to replace a neck seal so I've been reading up.

1. Heat gun.
2. DRIS has some good videos. And try youtube.
3. Plastic bleach, vinegar, etc. bottles are easier to find than a traffic cone.

 

[Bigeclipse]

I haven't done it myself yet but am getting to the point where I need to replace a neck seal so I've been reading up.

1. Heat gun.
2. DRIS has some good videos. And try youtube.
3. Plastic bleach, vinegar, etc. bottles are easier to find than a traffic cone.

Thanks you. As for the traffic cone...I actually already had one laying around so figured what the heck I can give it a shot

 

[DA Aquamaster]

1. What is the best way to remove seals?

As noted above a heat gun will soften most adhesives used on dry suit seals - just be aware that most heat guns can also damage most dry suits if you let the suit get too hot.

Generally speaking, I trim the original seal flush with the suit but don't remove it, particularly on some materials where getting good adhesion to the suit might be a problem as the seal itself when lightly sanded then cleaned with acetone makes a great surface for the new seal.

2. I will be using the DRIS glue...//...Anything else I should consider?

Use a small wallpaper roller to help roll the bubbles out of the joint and to ensure that it's tightly adhered to the underlying material.

You also need to insert something inside the suit and the wrist seal so that you can align the folded back seal with the suit, glue it and then just roll the seal onto the suit. Check the dollar store for a suitably sized plastic drinking glass then cut the end off it to create a tube a few inches long to insert in the end of the sleeve to support the cuff and provide a space to align and glue the seal.

Life is much easier with the new heat activated adhesive tapes that you can get at places like Dive Gear Express. Whites has used them for years, they work exceptionally well, are easy to apply and create a joint that won't pull apart. Basically you use a heat gun or hobby iron to iron the adhesive tape onto the suit, then peel off the protective strip on one side, place the seal in position and then iron it on. It is fast as it is adhered as soon as it cools and is ready to dive in about an hour.

Neck seals are definitely easier to do with heat activated tape adhesive than with traditional glue. Just fold the seal in half and half again so you can mark it evenly in 4 places around the edge and identify and mark the same 1/4 locations on the suit. Then apply the tape to the suit, then tack the seal in each marked location with an iron. keep tacking the seal to the suit in between each of the previously tacked spot so that there are no wrinkle in the seal where it attaches to the suit, then iron it on firmly all the way around.

The other advantage of heat activated tapes is that when it's time to replace the seal, it will come off easily with a heat gun.

When applying a new neck seal, I've noted more companies are just gluing the seal on the outside, without applying tape over the top. That is I suspect an artifact of easier to use heat activated adhesives, and it makes for a very quick, easy and clean looking seal. However, I still use a layer of aqua seal on the inside of the suit to secure the edge of the suit to the seal for extra security and to prevent the edge from lifting.

3. Someone suggested a traffic cone will help with the neck seal.[/QUOTE]

I think traffic cones are way too narrow.

The preferred approaches are to:

1. use a plastic neck ring lightly glued to the seal that keeps the seal in position while you apply the seal to the suit. In essence, the ring is used to support then seal on the suit, then peeled off after the seal is glued to the suit.

2. Use a wooden base on one side and a round ring (just larger than the seal diameter) on the other side to clamp the suit material in place so that the seal can be glued to the suit.

3. Use a big rubber ball (larger than a basket ball) to support the suit material. I think a large round boat bumper (the orange and black style) is just about perfect as the end with the eye is slightly cone shaped and is about the perfect shape to support the neck of the suit while you roll or iron the seal on the suit.

In any case, it's a lot easier with heat activated adhesive so I recommend you reconsider your glue choice.

 

[Bigeclipse]

Very informative. However, I was told those heat tapes do not work with trilam drysuits. Mine is a Bare trilam hd. Where can I find all these neck formers and plastic rings or do I have to make them?

 

[fmerkel]

I haven't used it but the heat activated tape for neck seals sounds GOOD!
Wrist seals are easy. The floppy neck seal is a real pain with contact type glue, and Aquaseal is a VERY bad idea....never comes off.

You need to stabilize the neck seal. I made a ring template out of cardboard. This is double side taped to the top of the neck seal so it's STIFF and FLAT. That way you could lower it onto the prepared suit without getting big wrinkles in it.....hopefully. VERY hard to do that without some kind of stabilization.

 

[Bigeclipse]

I haven't used it but the heat activated tape for neck seals sounds GOOD!
Wrist seals are easy. The floppy neck seal is a real pain with contact type glue, and Aquaseal is a VERY bad idea....never comes off.

You need to stabilize the neck seal. I made a ring template out of cardboard. This is double side taped to the top of the neck seal so it's STIFF and FLAT. That way you could lower it onto the prepared suit without getting big wrinkles in it.....hopefully. VERY hard to do that without some kind of stabilization.

thanks but I was told the tape does not work on trilam without extra preparation. Sounds like you need to put some glue down on the trilam and let it dry. Then the tape will adhere to the glue.

 

[boat sju]

thanks but I was told the tape does not work on trilam without extra preparation. Sounds like you need to put some glue down on the trilam and let it dry. Then the tape will adhere to the glue.

I believe you're right about this.

I used the vinegar bottle before for trimming my neck seal to fit - I shouldn't have brought it up in this context. Aquamaster is pretty well respected on this board for this kind of stuff. So I'd listen to him.

DA, do you need to clean the tape before using it? The DRIS website confused me a little about that.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

Yes, I clean the exposed side of the adhesive tape with acetone as I just don't know where it's been since it left the factory.

The "won't stick to a trilam" issue simply isn't an issue when you are replacing a seal, as you can just trim the original seals flush with the suit and put the new seals on top of the old one. When it's time to replace that second seal, you can hit it with a heat gun just enough to peel it off, and put the third seal on top of the original seal.

Otherwise if you remove the original seal entirely (which is also a waste of time and effort), then you may have to brush on a coat of seal cement to ensure the heat activated adhesive tape will adhere. It's still easier than doing the whole process with liquid seal cement, but it's a lot more work than just leaving the well adhered portion of the old seals in place.

Trust me on this. When Whites first started teaching dry suit repair classes with heat activated adhesive tape and I realized it would also work on just about any suit when replacing a seal, it was like the clouds parted and the angels sang. Life has been better ever since.

 

[Bigeclipse]

Yes, I clean the exposed side of the adhesive tape with acetone as I just don't know where it's been since it left the factory.

The "won't stick to a trilam" issue simply isn't an issue when you are replacing a seal, as you can just trim the original seals flush with the suit and put the new seals on top of the old one. When it's time to replace that second seal, you can hit it with a heat gun just enough to peel it off, and put the third seal on top of the original seal.

Otherwise if you remove the original seal entirely (which is also a waste of time and effort), then you may have to brush on a coat of seal cement to ensure the heat activated adhesive tape will adhere. It's still easier than doing the whole process with liquid seal cement, but it's a lot more work than just leaving the well adhered portion of the old seals in place.

Trust me on this. When Whites first started teaching dry suit repair classes with heat activated adhesive tape and I realized it would also work on just about any suit when replacing a seal, it was like the clouds parted and the angels sang. Life has been better ever since.

This might work 90% of the time but what about seals which are cracking/dry rotted where the seal is actually glued to the suit? This is actually what happened to mine. The wrist seals are actually still very stretchy and nice BUT where they were glued to the suit is showing cracking and is actually where they are leaking. By your method above I'd simply be taping over those cracks which would still likely leak...