Shopping list - Thoughts?
- Thread starter introv6800
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OP
introv6800
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I'm 5"11, 180lbs and 36 inch waist. I ordered the ML standard suit. I'll let you know how it fits once it arrives.
Where did you read that he is going to take on technical diving?? He said:
1. He is "Newly certified OWD"
2. Dives - will be mostly in cooler/cold water seeing that I live in CT and I can literally walk across the street from my house and dive with the local shop. I will also do vacation dives every chance I get. Probably 3-4 times per year in the warmer water.
3. Interests - Adventure, wrecks and a little photography (training dependent of course).
In fact, what he said is the picture definition of a recreational diver, nothing about technical diving at all. One can do wreck diving all their life and still be a recreational diver and it won't mean that they are technical diver!! Even if he may consider technical diving in the future, he is still a "Newly certified OWD"!!!!
The assumptions you are making about piston regulators and about the Atomic brand are just so incredibly wrong. You claim to be a technical diver and you should know that the most used regulator in technical diving (or at least one of the 2 - 3 brands/models used in technical diving) is the Scubapro MK20/25 piston first stage. In fact, in Europe, Africa and the Middle East, this piston first stage is the standard in technical diving. No other first stage comes close to the gas flow rate the Scubapro MK25 can deliver.
The information you are giving out is misleading to say the least and grossly misinformed.
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"Needs - Something that will grow with me and not have to buy much to upgrade or modify."
all of the gear he has mentioned except one first stage and second stage will require upgrades if he moves out of recreational diving. None of the gear I listed will require upgrades or mods except for the wing in the plate and there is no way to avoid that. Add to that, the fact that none of the gear listed is inappropriate for even the shallowest, warmest recreational dives, and I'm not sure why you are so hell bend on continuing the spread of misinformation about "technical" dive gear. I still have yet to hear a single reason why the gear that we use when we are ice diving, cave diving, or penetrating wrecks is insufficient for 30ft reef diving in the Keys. Please enlighten me because I've clearly been doing it wrong since the time I first put on a scuba tank *which was a back plate and wing with "technical" regulator configurations in my open water class*
Implying I'm grossly misinformed is anything but true, and I don't know of anyone doing deep exploration dives on pistons anymore. In Europe they still might be doing some, but almost all of it here is on diaphragms, including the ones that I linked earlier. Remember this also slick, first stage freezing usually occurs at the surface when the air is below freezing and the adiabatic cooling creates an ice block. Anyone who thinks that a sealed piston is suited for ice diving should probably consult the cold water *and air* divers and realize that they are using sealed diaphragms for a reason. I have seen your precious MK25's and Atomics freeze up at the surface in 50* water when the air temp was low enough, and that is enough for me to never touch them. Not worth the risk. Modern diaphragms can flow far more air than any two divers can consume at any reasonable depth, and more than the valve can flow. Saying that the MK25 has the most air flow of any reg on the market is idiotic because it is restricted first by the valve itself, so what's the point?
Care to actually answer the question I asked? Based on his sentence of "Needs", what do you recommend that he won't have to upgrade or modify?
all of the gear he has mentioned except one first stage and second stage will require upgrades if he moves out of recreational diving. None of the gear I listed will require upgrades or mods except for the wing in the plate and there is no way to avoid that. Add to that, the fact that none of the gear listed is inappropriate for even the shallowest, warmest recreational dives, and I'm not sure why you are so hell bend on continuing the spread of misinformation about "technical" dive gear. I still have yet to hear a single reason why the gear that we use when we are ice diving, cave diving, or penetrating wrecks is insufficient for 30ft reef diving in the Keys. Please enlighten me because I've clearly been doing it wrong since the time I first put on a scuba tank *which was a back plate and wing with "technical" regulator configurations in my open water class*
Implying I'm grossly misinformed is anything but true, and I don't know of anyone doing deep exploration dives on pistons anymore. In Europe they still might be doing some, but almost all of it here is on diaphragms, including the ones that I linked earlier. Remember this also slick, first stage freezing usually occurs at the surface when the air is below freezing and the adiabatic cooling creates an ice block. Anyone who thinks that a sealed piston is suited for ice diving should probably consult the cold water *and air* divers and realize that they are using sealed diaphragms for a reason. I have seen your precious MK25's and Atomics freeze up at the surface in 50* water when the air temp was low enough, and that is enough for me to never touch them. Not worth the risk. Modern diaphragms can flow far more air than any two divers can consume at any reasonable depth, and more than the valve can flow. Saying that the MK25 has the most air flow of any reg on the market is idiotic because it is restricted first by the valve itself, so what's the point?
Care to actually answer the question I asked? Based on his sentence of "Needs", what do you recommend that he won't have to upgrade or modify?
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And you summarily and automatically assume and enforce the idea that this would ONLY mean he will be involved in an activity that less than 1% of divers do, technical diving??? Just because you are so wrapped up in your extreme niche of activity that the absolute insignificant minority of divers do, everyone else is going to do it especially when he just said he is "Newly certified OWD"? It can’t mean, as in the case of the 99% of divers, that he meant to step beyond the restrictions of he is "Newly certified OWD" and get into AOWD and DEEP Diver, etc. all within the realm of recreational diving?
Here we go again; you are, as always making assumptions based on the most erroneous unfounded facts. You are twisting all facts just to suit your prejudices in equipment and type of diving while hiding your affiliations with some of the dive equipment mfg.
BTW, the Scubapro MK25/S600 is the biggest seller in technical regulators out there in addition to recreational diving.
(FYI: All of my technical diver friends who dive in Boston/Cape Ann area use the SP MK25/A700 now).
Regulators freeze up in all makes, models, and brands BTW. You are also making assumptions that he is going to jump into ice freakin diving.
FYI, in my decades of diving in the Boston/New England/NY/NJ area, I have used mainly SP piston regulators, with at least 15 years of which I used SP/Atomic piston regulators exclusively. Once you try SP or Atomic, you will never accept anything less and you will always measure anything different to these two regulators. For years and years, we used exclusively SP PISTON regulators in our dive school in NY and New England and NEVER, not even once, had any performance problem with them because of piston or anything else.
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OP
introv6800
Registered
I certainly do appreciate this discussion/debate and have spent most of my afternoon and evening researching each product mentioned and a fair bit of info you both added. Although it clarified some things, it has also confused me a bit.
I want to thank everyone for their time and input and will consider what I feel is relevant to what I'm attempting to accomplish.
Again, Thank you.
I want to thank everyone for their time and input and will consider what I feel is relevant to what I'm attempting to accomplish.
Again, Thank you.
@introv6800
Concerning the Zeagle version of the AirII,
I have used the SP AirII for almost 20 years now and it is great. I don't know about the Zeagle version but here are my recommendations:
If you are going to use it, you must know that if your buddy is OOA, you will need to donate your primary second stage regulator and you'll have to use the octo Z reg for yourself. This means that you must have your primary second stage on a longer hose than the standard hose that comes with it. You should have the primary on a 40" hose with a 90 or 120 degree elbow or an "Omniswivel." Since you are going to change the hose to a longer hose that is most likely not an Atomic brand, I wouldn't waste money on the Z3 that comes with a hose/swivel combo since it isn't going to be used anyways. I'd buy the Z2 and change the hose to the longer hose, 40", and get an elbow or an omniswivel.
You should know that in a real OOA situation, most likely your buddy is going to grab the second stage that is direct view of him which is the one in your mouth anyways and hence you are donating the primary even if you didn't intend to and thus you should have the longer hose on the primary. Once you have the longer hose, you should route the hose under your right arm just like an octo for you to keep in control of the hose and of your buddy and not lose sight of him when he is using your primary as an octo. When you route the hose under your arm, it will be most convenient to attach this hose to the top LP port on your first stage (you attached the regulator to the tank valve with the turret facing down).
In regards to the BC, I am more familiar with the Ranger and the Ranger LTD and they are fantastic BC's, will last you forever and will grow with you for all types of recreational diving and for different types of thermal protection (thin wetsuit to drysuit and everything in between). You can't go wrong with the
Stiletto except that it is only a 35lb lift instead of the 44lb for the ranger. If this lift capacity isn't a big deal to you, then Stiletto is it.
BTW, the Z3/2 have the same performance characteristics as Atomic's highest end regulators and it will perform with the highest specs compared with any other regulator made in the world from any other mfg. and it will handle any dive situation you are in, deep, current, high stress, multiple LP hoses, etc. with the highest performance and reliability.
Enjoy your diving!!!
Concerning the Zeagle version of the AirII,
I have used the SP AirII for almost 20 years now and it is great. I don't know about the Zeagle version but here are my recommendations:
If you are going to use it, you must know that if your buddy is OOA, you will need to donate your primary second stage regulator and you'll have to use the octo Z reg for yourself. This means that you must have your primary second stage on a longer hose than the standard hose that comes with it. You should have the primary on a 40" hose with a 90 or 120 degree elbow or an "Omniswivel." Since you are going to change the hose to a longer hose that is most likely not an Atomic brand, I wouldn't waste money on the Z3 that comes with a hose/swivel combo since it isn't going to be used anyways. I'd buy the Z2 and change the hose to the longer hose, 40", and get an elbow or an omniswivel.
You should know that in a real OOA situation, most likely your buddy is going to grab the second stage that is direct view of him which is the one in your mouth anyways and hence you are donating the primary even if you didn't intend to and thus you should have the longer hose on the primary. Once you have the longer hose, you should route the hose under your right arm just like an octo for you to keep in control of the hose and of your buddy and not lose sight of him when he is using your primary as an octo. When you route the hose under your arm, it will be most convenient to attach this hose to the top LP port on your first stage (you attached the regulator to the tank valve with the turret facing down).
In regards to the BC, I am more familiar with the Ranger and the Ranger LTD and they are fantastic BC's, will last you forever and will grow with you for all types of recreational diving and for different types of thermal protection (thin wetsuit to drysuit and everything in between). You can't go wrong with the
Stiletto except that it is only a 35lb lift instead of the 44lb for the ranger. If this lift capacity isn't a big deal to you, then Stiletto is it.
BTW, the Z3/2 have the same performance characteristics as Atomic's highest end regulators and it will perform with the highest specs compared with any other regulator made in the world from any other mfg. and it will handle any dive situation you are in, deep, current, high stress, multiple LP hoses, etc. with the highest performance and reliability.
Enjoy your diving!!!
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who am I affiliated with in terms of MFG's? I'm unaware that I was getting kickbacks from them... I have some of my preferred dealers and mfg's in my signature so I'm not sure how that is hidden, but last I checked, or at least my wallet checked, I get nothing back from any of them for recommending products. Hell Dive Rite and I don't exactly get along, but that doesn't blind me from seeing that Edd is selling the best value regulator package that uses their regs. If someone else comes out with a comparable package I will start linking to that. My only "agenda" is to make sure divers aren't wasting money and are buying the best value product that the market has available. Your precious Scubapro unfortunately doesn't currently sell anything that is the best "value" due to absurdly high pricing, and complete refusal to supply parts to the end users along with inadequate customer service compared to smaller manufacturers. Argue all you want, but I there really is no hidden agenda to serve any manufacturers, certainly not Dive Rite who I linked two products in my recommendation.
It is literally this simple. Gear that you recommend is not allowed in certain forms of technical diving for safety reasons, nothing that we use in the technical realm isn't allowed in recreational diving for safety concerns, game over because based on the "needs" section in the original post, that is a deal breaker since it will require upgrading later. Why not buy something that you won't ever have to replace regardless of if you're in the 1% of divers that will go into technical diving? Everything except the first and second stage becomes junk if he goes, nothing that I recommended is inadequate for recreational diving.
And you still refuse to answer the question, what would you recommend since that is what the OP asked for? It's going to likely be something scubapro since the dive shop you own is a dealer for them...
It is literally this simple. Gear that you recommend is not allowed in certain forms of technical diving for safety reasons, nothing that we use in the technical realm isn't allowed in recreational diving for safety concerns, game over because based on the "needs" section in the original post, that is a deal breaker since it will require upgrading later. Why not buy something that you won't ever have to replace regardless of if you're in the 1% of divers that will go into technical diving? Everything except the first and second stage becomes junk if he goes, nothing that I recommended is inadequate for recreational diving.
And you still refuse to answer the question, what would you recommend since that is what the OP asked for? It's going to likely be something scubapro since the dive shop you own is a dealer for them...
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