The Next Generation

[Tigerman]

I think my nature most people are lazy. Old old school a person could use a slide rule and get a answer quicker than a calculator. Old school a person would use a calculator instead of calculating a simple math question. Not too old school, a person has no idea how to use a calculator, they use their computer. Present day, they do not even have a idea how to calculate the answer....they Google it and find someone else's answer.

Same thing with SCUBA...A person does not need to know how to dive, their computer will tell them how to dive......

We both have something to learn from each other....hopefully we are all paying attention......

Happy Diving

The problem is, the computer assume you know how to follow its directions and the manufacturer will take no responsibility for your cockups.. And in some cases that would be the least of your concerns..

 

[TMHeimer]

I guess you were taking your afternoon nap.


When discussing this, I hear scuba is not swimming and other such comments. All I can say, is if you are a non-swimmer and you dive where I do, you will not likely get back to the boat alive. I suppose if you have a DM hold your hand and are diving in vacation land, you can get by, but there is definitely a change in attitude today.

You should be able to swim before starting scuba IMO. But barring one in a million scenarios, scuba is not (no fin) swimming. I am a pretty good swimmer and most likely have dived some of the spots you have.

 

[diver 85]

Like most young whippersnappers in the past, they will never listen......Most have to go to(but not necessarily graduate from) The School of Hard Knocks......

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

I am a pretty good swimmer and most likely have dived some of the spots you have.

How's the DM swims going? 400 meter swim in ~13 minutes? What is your definition of a "pretty good swimmer?"

To qualify for the US Masters Short Course Nationals 500 yard swim; a 75-79 y/o WOMAN needs to swim faster than 10:52.38 and an 80-84 y/o man needs to swim faster than 10:30.75.

Formula: Three year average of Top Ten 10 place times + conversion factor (15% for 50s & 100s; 10% for 200+)

I am ~6 years younger than you with less than 33 days of swim training in the last 33 years and I can still score 5's on the swims. I think a "pretty good swimmer" could at least score 4's; I can score 4 swimming the breast stroke and probably an IM (w/ couple weeks training). For a 50-54 y/o I know to qualify for Nationals, here at sea level I would have to cover an extra 100 yards in the same time as my recent 7,200' elevation 400 time (500 qualifying time 5:46.21).

I'm sure you think I'm picking on you but read below to see someone between our ages who might eventually be a pretty good swimmer. A pretty good swimmer should breeze through the PADI DM swim tests, back to back to back to back, all before lunch!

BTW, I'm 53 years old, and I'm currently doing about 415-420 yards in 10 minutes, and am continuing to improve, and I only learned to swim last August. So, just work at it, and you should see pretty good improvement.

 

[Atom]

When it comes to diving equipment and diving education, the values of older (age) divers are often discarded out-of-hand, although they may not be fully understood by a younger generation. Youth has little time for what has come before and progress by making the way "better" based upon their unique view of reality.

At other times the differences lie in the length of time people have been diving (experience) or how they have seen recreational diving change over the years. How are age differences and experience levels beneficial in discussions on SB, or are they harmful? Can the wisdom of the past be embraced or should it be? What's your opinion?

I believe the same thing applies in almost every evolving field (I could write a bunch about how old school diving VS current stuff relates to C/assembly VS C#/Java/Python, that would be a pretty geeky post, but not pertinent for SB).

I'm somewhat old school as far a programming goes (been debugging/optimizing/cleaning other people stuff for too long, that's my job) but I certainly do like my gadgets while I'm scuba diving (you can try to pry my wireless AI for my cold dead hands), but that's my hobby.

I read posts from guys like DCBC or Thas with an open mind since they've been doing this for a while (sorry for singling you out), but I also try to make my own opinion about what they say, since I know that I've held to some "unoptimal" opinions in my professional field (programming) and it took me a while to change my mind, so experience does not mean you're right all the time. I've also been right by clinging to the old school stuff at other times, even in the face of great opposition.

One very important thing to acknowledge is that technological advancements can render old assumptions totally useless, or less "right" than they were in the past.

The octopus VS buddy breathing seems to be a good example of that. While I do think learning to buddy breath is good to build confidence in the underwater environment, there seems to be little chance that buddy breathing will be required to solve an UW issue at the recreational level. Doesn't mean it can't happen, and doesn't mean that it's useless to learn it, but lets be realistic, you probably will never buddy breath in a recreational OW environment.

[Edit]

I said, open mind, but I also have a lot of respect (and admiration) for the people who've been doing this thing in harder conditions and with less reliable equipment that what I'm currently using. I mean... J-valves!!! No depth gauge!!! No BC!!!!

 

[DCBC]

One very important thing to acknowledge is that technological advancements can render old assumptions totally useless, or less "right" than they were in the past.

This is true to a degree, but I think there is wisdom in not needing the technological advantages to do the dive safely. Technology will fail, it's a matter of time. When it does, I believe that a diver has to be prepared to survive without it. That doesn't mean that technology isn't useful; it is. But not being able to swim and relying on a BC, or decompression diving by blindly following a dive computer without an ability to know what was required, are unnecessary risks that I wouldn't take.

The octopus VS buddy breathing seems to be a good example of that. While I do think learning to buddy breath is good to build confidence in the underwater environment, there seems to be little chance that buddy breathing will be required to solve an UW issue at the recreational level. Doesn't mean it can't happen, and doesn't mean that it's useless to learn it, but lets be realistic, you probably will never buddy breath in a recreational OW environment.

Good example. As I've seen octopuses fail, I think buddy breathing is still worthwhile to teach. I also believe it instills confidence and aids in the buddy relationship and the importance of mutual dependence.

I mean... J-valves!!! No depth gauge!!! No BC!!!!

I think most of us had depth gauges and a surface vest (inflatable by CO2 cartridge in an emergency and producing around 16 pounds of buoyancy). I used a J-valve, sometimes a K-valve (no reserve) and didn't have an SPG until a couple of years later. You looked at your Buddy differently than you do today.

 

[captain]

The octopus VS buddy breathing seems to be a good example of that. While I do think learning to buddy breath is good to build confidence in the underwater environment, there seems to be little chance that buddy breathing will be required to solve an UW issue at the recreational level. Doesn't mean it can't happen, and doesn't mean that it's useless to learn it, but lets be realistic, you probably will never buddy breath in a recreational OW environment.

[Edit]

I said, open mind, but I also have a lot of respect (and admiration) for the people who've been doing this thing in harder conditions and with less reliable equipment that what I'm currently using. I mean... J-valves!!! No depth gauge!!! No BC!!!!

I dive with other vintage divers, no octo, no BC and on ocasion no SPG and double hose regulators so every skill I learned in the past are still in play now. We do buddy breathing skills with a double hose regulator, with a single hose it's a piece of cake.
We do this in the same open water enviroment as any other modern equipment diver.

When we get youger divers interested in vintage diving one of the first things we tell them is that their training may not be up to vintage standards. buddy breathing, buoyancy and air management being the main issues, and advise them how to go about getting that training.

 

[NSMEDIC]

DCBC and all,
Not sure if I'm part of the next generation of diving or not been diving for 10 years this year. I don't have fancy gear..I have a basic weight belt..wetsuit..reg octo gauge and compass...and the rest..I don't have integrated weights.. don't have a computer..don't have a dry suit.
My point is..that like any gear heavy..I'll say THING either sport..industry..job. The gear goes through phases..I'm not sure if SCUBA is at it's pinnacle of what the gear can get. I like to think of me as not the next generation.

As to the swimming skill of SCUBA, my friend asked me if he could do SCUBA if he can't swim. I retorted you can't swim, I wouldn't try SCUBA until you can. I'm a firm believer that you should be strong in the water to be a diver. My wife and I are both water rats,, we are divers and swimmers, love boating. Now are son is two and he loves the water, one of his first words was pool. If he takes up SCUBA I will never worry about him as I know his water skills will be excellent. Which brings my question, if you get into a self rescue situation and you are not a strong swimmer..you'll be dead. Now I do a lot of solo diving (oh no gasp!!) and I'm confident in my water skills and training that I will hopefully never get into a self-rescue situation.

Anyway I'm sure I have repeated a lot that has already been said but this is my opinion.