Upper Tank mounting points: Bungees and/or chokers

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Doubles Course | Global Underwater Explorers

Most of the "tec40" type courses are also the "doubles" courses as that is where they teach you to dive with double cylinders. It's not a standalone course per se, but the intro to tec courses are basically buoyancy, trim, propulsion, valve drills, OOA scenarios etc
 
What course would that be? I haven't heard of a doubles class.

Silly me.. I thought this was just a sarcastic, and somewhat rhetorical question.
 
I started with tank-top bungees, but when I got home from the course, I converted my old DiveRite Transpac to use with doubles and I started with the Nomad bungee-and-rings setup. I prefer the "solid connection" feeling of clipping into those rings, and I like the way my tanks feel snug-in-place. But that's just me....

After my last trip, though, I'm shopping for a new BCD, one with a trapezoidal bladder instead of the old horseshoe wings I'm using on the Transpac. I am all-but-sold on DiveRite's Nomad LTZ, and DiveRite's having a "demo day" in a local quarry weekend after next.
 
do yourself a favor and at least try the Hollis Katana before you commit to the LTZ. The difference of profile in the water is astounding...

Really?... I had a good look at the Katana, couple of days ago, and one problem I saw was that it didn't have any rings to clip on my butt-pouch. (The other "problem" is that I'm used to, and comfortable with, the DiveRite bungee system.)

The Hollis dealer that had the Katana has two shops, one with an indoor training pool - I went to the other one, which is closer to home. Guess I could call the training-pool shop and ask about trying the Katana in the water. (It helps that I figured out that a Highland Millworks counter-lung plate could be slid onto the back of the crotch-strap, to attach my pouch.)
 
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I've been sidemounting well over a dozen years now... before a lot of the current instructors were even diving. I might take some heat for this, but one of the huge draws of sidemount at the time was that you had to figure it out for yourself. Sure, you would get ideas from others, but the thought was that if you needed someone to instruct you on sidemount, it really wasn't for you.

That does sound little clique Pete... we 'could' say the same about technical diving. The current generation of tech instructors/divers are spoon-fed the techniques and principles that previous generations had to research and learn for themselves. But we cannot say 'perhaps it's not for you...." can we?

I do get your gist though. Questing for options and alternatives, testing, adapting, designing... was a great part of the early days of sidemount. But even then, there were divers who went out and bought an off-the-shelf rig... they were available over a decade ago. Only the choice was much more limited then.The 'big' sidemount discussions then were 'Armadillo versus DiveRite'.... because they were pretty much the only two choices. Then along came the Razor...

As I've mentioned in other threads and articles - I think it's pretty much boiled down to two schools of design. Those inspired by the Mexico cavers and those by the Florida cavers. That's true whether rigs are off-the-shelf, modified or homemade. It's true because aluminum and steel cylinders have different demands; and those demands eventually evolve into relatively identical solutions.

As with backmount, the more evolution occurs, the more gets accepted as 'standard'.... and the arguments and discussions devolve into smaller and smaller issues.

Now, it's far more mainstream. There are books and curricula all about side mounting. Agencies and a few divers are trying to standardize side mount, but why?

I don't see any agenda to 'standardize' sidemount... I think it's a natural evolution. That makes sense. But read on...

When Steve Martin released his video series a while ago, I was shocked to find that my approach was near identical. We are separated by 11,000 km. That's a natural evolution along the 'Mexico cave' path, primarily with aluminum cylinders. Two geographically separated instructor, not sharing ideas, reaching the same conclusions and outcomes.

I am not expert in how things are done in Florida, with steel cylinders and drysuits... but I am sure many of the pioneers there also reach the same broad solutions, progressively narrowing down those solutions down as time progresses.

Unlike backmount, which crystallized onto a single path of development, regardless of steel/aluminum - dry/wetsuit, sidemount does benefit from a different approach depending on the buoyancy characteristics of the cylinder used.

I certainly have picked up a few dos and don'ts as I have progressed, but my sidemount style has evolved over the years.

The only major 'error' I see with modern sidemount divers/instructors stems from a lack of education about the evolution of sidemount. Where they buy 'off-the-shelf' systems without understanding how, or why, those features evolved....and what they are intended for.

I see topical water instructors, where aluminum cylinders are ubiquitous, buying 'popular' sidemount rigs that have buttplates, rails and thick diameter independent bungees...or ring bungees. Kit that was obviously designed for steel cylinders and their characteristics. Then those instructors/divers are clueless as to why they can't get their aluminum cylinders to stay even remotely in trim. Many ignore the issue... and simply accept that it's 'usual' for cylinders to push forwards of the shoulders and/or rise at the base. Some seek solutions in X, Y or Z bungee methods, without understanding the underlying problem they're encountering.

I also see people arguing merits of what are essentially two dissimilar approaches. It's pointless. Or I see people recommending what they use (i.e. Florida cave design) to inquiries in other parts of the world who only have access to aluminum cylinders.
 
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Don't be afraid of playing on your own. Develop a system that works for you. Make your own harnesses if it seems right. HAVE FUN. That's the reason we dive, isn't it?

I was watching the new(ish) Steve Jobs movie last week. There was a scene that triggered some thought in my mind. In that scene, Steve Jobs is arguing with Steve Wozniak about the approach to computer design.

Wozniak championed flexibility, options.... more ports for ancillaries, more ability for users to open up a PC and make changes to the board and chips, THAT was what the existing market wanted.

In contrast, Steve Jobs wanted a sealed unit. Users wouldn't have the option to open up the PC. They got only what came in the box. Apple would dictate the functionality and users wouldn't be able to tweak or refine it. Ancillaries were hard-wired. etc etc etc

Steve Jobs explained that 'serious users' wanted flexible and modular, but serious users were a minority of the future market. Most people.... casual users at home and in the office... would greater appreciate a sealed unit PC.... no modularity and no need to tweak, configure or upgrade etc...

I thought that was a great illustration of what happens with sidemount equipment manufacturers. Serious users want modular systems or 'bare bones' rigs. They want to tweak, refine, upgrade, experiment etc...

However, the vast majority of people won't be serious users, they are 'casual' users.... and they won't appreciate what serious users enjoy or value in a sidemount design. Casual users want a 'sealed' unit... something 'off-the-shelf' that requires no tinkering, no adaptation and minimal set-up and configuration.

To casual users of sidemount rig, the raw optimization of the rig is less important than the basic ease of use and aesthetics. Think iPhone versus Android....

When sidemount (just like personal computers) hit the mainstream, it caused a division in user needs/wants. The pre-mainstream generation of serious users might struggle to understand that casual users appreciate about having choice and flexibility taken away from them.

For me... I always disliked Hollis sidemounts. I hated feeling 'railroaded' into whatever solution Hollis determined was optimum. I knew there were optimizations to make... but Hollis didn't allow me to do that to the extent I wanted. Everything was sewn together etc etc

.So when you are designing 'sealed units' for casual users, it becomes much more important to integrate the latest design evolution and functionality within the product. That evolution actually stems from what the serious users are evolving with their rigs.

Think about Edd's modifications to the SMS100... and how that later reflected in the HOG and Halcyon sidemount rigs...

THAT is precisely why some manufacturers may seem to be attempting to 'standardize' how sidemount is approached. For the same reason that Apple sought to 'standardize' consumer expectations of what a personal computer, a media player and now a smartphone should provide them with.

For that reason, there are now also two types of sidemount system on the market. There are the modular units that are most enjoyed by serious users.... and there are 'sealed' units for the casual users. Compare an SMS50 with an XDeep....

The new Hollis Katana seems to be aimed at serious users... and that's a first for Hollis. It's the first rig they've made that I quite like. Why? Because I know I can optimize it.

I recently reviewed the new TecLine 16 sidemount (read the review here).... it has two variants.

One is very modular....the other is very 'sealed'. Identical units in many respects... but one of them (Avenger) you can remove/replace the buttplate with offset D-rings, change the 'DIR' harness, change your D-rings etc etc etc....

The other variant (Side 2) is sewn together with extra padding, a comfort harness, no-detachable buttplate etc etc etc..... the scope for user modification has been deliberately removed.

With the Tecline sidemount...we see how a single manufacturer has identified and separated the needs of serious and casual users. I'd be fascinated to know which unit sold the most....(I can guess which will...)

To the 'serious user' it's unfathomable why anyone would want their options removed. Why remove the 'fun' of being able to fine-tune and optimize the rig for individual use.

To the 'casual user', all those options and issues just seem like a hassle. They want a rig they can pull off the shelf, strap on and go... the fine details of optimizing performance are an irrelevance. To them THAT is more fun.

Sidemount went mainstream... and that meant casual users form the majority of the market share. Hollis outsell XDeep and Razor. That's why stuff got standardized with some mainstream manufacturers. It remains modular with specialist manufacturers, who target serious users.

In those standardized 'sealed units', evolution became staged, rather than fluid. A design is released that reflects the current 'best ideas'... years pass... the serious users evolve designs... and then new 'sealed units' are released for casual users that reflect perceived improvements and what functions are currently desirable.

The problem, as mentioned in the previous post, is that many casual users (and the manufacturers that target them) don't differentiate between the needs of steel and aluminum cylinders divers.... the 'two design schools' concept is overlooked.
 
Really?... I had a good look at the Katana, couple of days ago, and one problem I saw was that it didn't have any rings to clip on my butt-pouch. (The other "problem" is that I'm used to, and comfortable with, the DiveRite bungee system.)

The Hollis dealer that had the Katana has two shops, one with an indoor training pool - I went to the other one, which is closer to home. Guess I could call the training-pool shop and ask about trying the Katana in the water. (It helps that I figured out that a Highland Millworks counter-lung plate could be slid onto the back of the crotch-strap, to attach my pouch.)

this isn't meant to be offensive at all but may across as one, but that hits Andy's comments about serious vs casual user straight on the head. It's not a problem, just interesting that he posted it earlier

The Hollis system can accept a ring bungee system just as well as the Nomads can, just requires some DIY skills. Untie one end of each bungee, thread a metal o-ring on there, put a quicklink and bolt snap on the end of that and clip it to the d-ring. Takes less than 5 minutes. I'm not a fan because loop bungees offer infinitely better tank positioning, but to each his own. I used rings for a few years and have since converted. No it doesn't have the daisy chain to use quick links to put the bungee on and off, so you have to do some work, but it's quite easy to modify

Also not a fan of the man purse but the stock Katana should have two attachment points, one are a set of offset d-rings on the waist belt for tanks *yes these work perfectly fine with steel tanks*, and should also have door handles on the butt plate. You can easily attach it to the door handles which many of us have either removed or are using for storage. I have mine removed and replaced with bungee to hold my canister light and I have a double d-ring strapped to said canister light for storage of stuff.

Yes, the profile in the water is incredibly different. The LTZ looks like a beach ball when it's inflated. It's really bad.
 
Yes, the profile in the water is incredibly different. The LTZ looks like a beach ball when it's inflated. It's really bad.

I'm struggling with this right now and I've gotta say... I would likely trade my LTZ for a katana in a heartbeat givin the headache of slowly getting this thing in anything close to acceptable trim. Even as a big dude with plenty of built in bouyancy that thing beach balls up with ANY level of air in the bladder.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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