Warning for Monterey Divers (especially women): Beware of Fred

[LittleFrog]

Mark just making sure you understand that I said harrass not assault. They are 2 completely different things.

Yes, they are 2 different things. But I think Mark was responding to the comment/question about no confirmed reports and that the guy had not done anything illegal. He referred to my original post where I shared that Fred had grabbed me underwater and attempted to drag me off in an unplanned direction. That action, itself, can constitute assault (as was explained to me by a friend in law enforcement).

I'm not sure the legal definition of assault is clear to most people. It wasn't to me. I have no expertise in Law but as it was explained to me, physical contact does not have to be made, nor does physical harm have to occur. A gesture that makes a reasonable person feel threatened can constitute assault. If a relative stranger joined you for a walk, grabbed your arm, and tried to drag you off the trail...any reasonable person would perceive that the "stranger" intended harm and, consequently, feel threatened. Because of the inherant dangers of diving, a similar gesture underwater can lead to a heightened sense of threat.

I think this is what Mark was suggesting...that what happened to me could be considered assault, which is illegal. Correct me if I'm wrong, though, Mark.

Just for the record: my original post was intended as a genuine warning, not a "Fred-bashing" thread. However....I'm certainly not sorry it's making people aware.

Happy diving....

 

[SoCalAngel]

Assault is a threat... actual pulling or hurting is called battery. Assault can be verbal, as well as other non-physical. However, once it becomes physical, it is battery.

 

[mweitz]

Correct, so it was Assault and Battery. In any case, what you reported in the original post (if it is true, I happen to believe so) would have been illegal actions on Freds part and a first hand report.

The reality is, if you reported it to the police there is most likely little they would do, and I doubt the DA would prosecute. It is quite possible that there have been reports made but the police never followed up.

Mark

Yes, they are 2 different things. But I think Mark was responding to the comment/question about no confirmed reports and that the guy had not done anything illegal. He referred to my original post where I shared that Fred had grabbed me underwater and attempted to drag me off in an unplanned direction. That action, itself, can constitute assault (as was explained to me by a friend in law enforcement).

I'm not sure the legal definition of assault is clear to most people. It wasn't to me. I have no expertise in Law but as it was explained to me, physical contact does not have to be made, nor does physical harm have to occur. A gesture that makes a reasonable person feel threatened can constitute assault. If a relative stranger joined you for a walk, grabbed your arm, and tried to drag you off the trail...any reasonable person would perceive that the "stranger" intended harm and, consequently, feel threatened. Because of the inherant dangers of diving, a similar gesture underwater can lead to a heightened sense of threat.

I think this is what Mark was suggesting...that what happened to me could be considered assault, which is illegal. Correct me if I'm wrong, though, Mark.

Just for the record: my original post was intended as a genuine warning, not a "Fred-bashing" thread. However....I'm certainly not sorry it's making people aware.

Happy diving....

 

[Luvnthelife]

I was just making sure Mark knew that in my comment I said harrass and not assault. Assault is a very big accusation. I know the meaning of both. Just wanted to make sure he knew I meant harrass and not assault. Fred did not physically nor verbally harm any one I knew. Just annoyed and harrassed a little with his presence and persistence. Thanks everyone.

 

[Fuzzmutton]

I saw Fred this last weekend at Breakwater. He drove slowly by me and the hubby as we were lugging our suits down to Glen's for a quick rinse. Talk about a malevolent stare out his truck window! He looked at me like he wanted to run me over (he's asked me twice to go diving). I just took my stuff to Glen's and later the hubby said that while I was over there without him, Fred approached again about whether or not we were getting ready to go out or were coming in. Hubby said coming in, last dive. Fred passed me as he went away muttering to himself. Weee-ird.

 

[Doc Intrepid]

I saw Fred this last weekend at Breakwater. He drove slowly by me and the hubby as we were lugging our suits down to Glen's for a quick rinse. Talk about a malevolent stare out his truck window! He looked at me like he wanted to run me over (he's asked me twice to go diving). I just took my stuff to Glen's and later the hubby said that while I was over there without him, Fred approached again about whether or not we were getting ready to go out or were coming in. Hubby said coming in, last dive. Fred passed me as he went away muttering to himself. Weee-ird.

Here you go:
http://www.divetekoz.com/2005/products/Products_main/products_main_files/manta/crowbar.asp

Completely legal. Not a rule #6 violation. Straps to your tank, out of the way. Rapid response for those days when you decide that being cordial just isn't in the plan.

An investment in safe diving that will last a lifetime!



Doc


"I used to have superhuman powers, but my therapist took them away"

 

[Thalassamania]

I was out on a Russian research vessel years ago and the Chief Engineer had several Titanium crowbars made up in the shop and gave each of us one. I t was really neat, and now its just sitting somewhere in the garage. It looks like they only want $125 buck for one, you’ll love it, and so will Fred.

 

[Green_Manelishi]

Here you go:
http://www.divetekoz.com/2005/products/Products_main/products_main_files/manta/crowbar.asp

Completely legal. Not a rule #6 violation. Straps to your tank, out of the way. Rapid response for those days when you decide that being cordial just isn't in the plan.

An investment in safe diving that will last a lifetime!



Doc


"I used to have superhuman powers, but my therapist took them away"

A crowbar? Not.

I've been told that Glocks can be fired underwater. A small enough model could be tucked nicely into a bellows pocket on your drysuit.

 

[RoyN]

I finally saw him at Breakwater, he didn't even give a glancing look at me. Anyways, this legend should just die.

 

[Gombessa]

What's been said here is pretty much correct. Simply put, assault is a threatening action. Once it becomes physical contact, it's a battery. Note that battery doesn't have to hurt, it just has to be contact (there's a famous case to illustrate the point, about an insurance adjuster who was found liable for battery instead of assault because he flipped a coin onto the hospital bed of an old granny and said something like "This is all you'll ever see of your claim money, since we're not paying out a single cent.").

And note that battery is a tort, by itself it's usually not criminal, so there's no guilt/acquittal, just liability. Whether or not grabbing a buddy underwater is battery or not is really questionable. Since you can't speak underwater and it can be hard to clearly make your intentions known, it would be pretty easy to argue it was innocuous or a reasonable way to get a buddy's attention underwater.