We judge based on outcomes, not on process...

[Taronmyheel]

Great posts.

 

[Manjula Ellepola]

Great post!
One thing I noticed on SB is that there are a lot more posts about fatalities than near misses. One would think it should be the opposite. Could it be that pride is preventing more reports on mishaps? Or could it be that a mishap escalates so quickly that you never get a chance to report it?

 

[Jack Hammer]

Great post!
One thing I noticed on SB is that there are a lot more posts about fatalities than near misses. One would think it should be the opposite. Could it be that pride is preventing more reports on mishaps? Or could it be that a mishap escalates so quickly that you never get a chance to report it?

More likely that people don't want you get beat up by chest thumping internet divers who'll microanalyze and criticize most every step they took.

 

[Steve_C]

The importance of mind practice is a good point. On a dive two days ago. I had removed an air horn from my bcd at the last moment since another diver noted an air leak. Reconnected inflator and tested it. Worked fine. Entered water and as I dropped went to give a second puff but did not hear a hiss. Checked and inflator hose had come disconnected. So reattached it and continued down. Looking for critters I couldn't move. Stopped and checked around. For first time ever I was caught in fish line. Took knife on bcd where it had sat for over 400 dives and cut the line. Then on the third time coming back to anchor in low viz I overshot it. Realized the issue and went back to anchor line. Lower on air than I like but still enough for the ascent since I had a small reserve when I headed back for the third time and I kept calm. (I also had a pony. Never used it but I find it very calming). And then just before climbing the ladder I got a leg cramp which I rarely do so had to work that out first with the old fin pull.

Usually my dives are issue free but this one had four cases of things popping up and I just dealt with them going through the mental script I had rehearsed several times.

 

[kelemvor]

It's an interesting read.

But...when we have an incident, the community doesn’t always help.

I do think it overlooks the fact that there is plenty to learn from most accident discussions that does not revolve directly around solving the direct cause of the fatality. In example, during the discussion of a recent rebreather accident many of us learned that a rebreather can become extremely negative in an instant if the mouthpiece is dropped at the surface. There are many other things that folks learned in that discussion as well.

It may not have helped resolve root cause for a particular fatality, but there can still be plenty of value in the discussion its-self. Maybe the value is derived just from the level of attention that a fatality brings. Maybe it comes from the willingness of experts to share otherwise guarded details. Often these may be details that experts would otherwise sell in the form of a class.

In short, the discussion its-self is valuable.

In addition, because there is a lack of detail, the commentary starts by judging that what they did was ’stupid’ and it should have been obvious that it would end this way. This lack of context and detail is a real challenge when it comes to improving diving safety.

That happens, but it is a simple matter for most adults to simply ignore these knee-jerk reactions. Just as we also ignore the inevitable comments that go along the lines of "don't talk about the accident, let the investigators do that." It's not like the participants are lawyers ticking boxes on a form for submission to a judge.

 

[RandomGuy1]

More likely that people don't want you get beat up by chest thumping internet divers who'll microanalyze and criticize most every step they took.

I think you are right about this. Back in September, I posted about a near miss that I had, and there was a very good discussion about what happened and how to prevent it from happening in the future. A lot of folks probably would not have posted that for fear of the internet tough guys, but I have a pretty thick skin. The results of that discussion, and some personal decisions I made that day caused me to abort a dive recently in similar conditions. For me, the simple act of putting down what happened allowed me to make some rules that would affect my future diving.

I don't feel like I got beat up too bad in the original "near miss" post, but I could have.

 

[Germie]

It is absolutely true. If a diver 2 years after his ow course does his first 330+ dive, is that too fast?
What if the diver has done in 2 years over 500 dives?
What if the diver has done in 10 years over 500 dives?

 

[Steve_C]

It is absolutely true. If a diver 2 years after his ow course does his first 330+ dive, is that too fast?
What if the diver has done in 2 years over 500 dives?
What if the diver has done in 10 years over 500 dives?

What kind of dives were the previous 500 dives?
How well were they executed?
Did they learn from their experience?
Were they open to and took advantage of learning opportunities.

 

[Germie]

What kind of dives were the previous 500 dives?
How well were they executed?
Did they learn from their experience?
Were they open to and took advantage of learning opportunities.

Dive 1 is first dive open water. Dive 4 is last dive open water. Then the diver goes thru advanced, rescue, divemaster, starts icediving,wreckdiving, adv. nitrox, and normoxic and then full trimix in this 500 dives. A not impossible way. Too fast? Too fast in 2 years? Too fast in 10 years?

I ask this because people sometimes write: doing such dives in just 2 years is too fast. But too fast based on what? In time? In amount of dives as you know it are 500 dives under different circumstances? What if the same diver did the same 500 dives in 10 years, then nobody would complaign or judge.
Is 18 months from ow to full cave certified too fast? Too fast if there where done over 350 dives between ow and full cave?
In such cases, can you really judge if you have never dived with that diver? Is it a really motivated diver or not? You have to see the diver in real life.