Weighting Going From Single To Double Steels

[cool_hardware52]

Folks, CHILL!!!

Let's focus on the topic, not each other. Sometimes, words simply may not convey a common, clear meaning to all readers. Tobin explained his intended point to me (and others), and I think we can all agree that - if someone is going to use doubles, they should be prepared to do so. Weighting is part of that preparation, but there are other factors as well. And, each of us brings a different experience profile to the discussion. Tobin has one, I have a slightly different one, and Storker has yet another. Storker made a good point, that I was not aware of, and possibly others of us based in the US are not aware of - recreational doubles are apparently more common in Europe than the US. That's great to know. I don't think that Storker's comment was intended to be snarky at all.

So, back to the actual topic??? I think the OP was asking about potential changes in weighting in moving from a single steel cylinder configuration to double steel cylinders.

How does Stoker know *what* my level of knowledge is WRT to doubles use worldwide? I have zero doubt that if I had added "your welcome" to unsolicited advise that would have been deleted by the mods. It was snarky and condescending by design. Double standards are not confidence inspiring.

*Alert* Sweeping generalization to follow. *Alert*

The level of understanding concerning proper weighting is dismally low. I'd suggest it's largely a function of the current education environment. Most can agree that a high percentage of BOW students are 1) Over weighted, 2) Have no real Idea how to quantitatively determine how much ballast they need, 3) Don't understand beyond "I can't sink" why they need ballast.

At least they have a BOW instructor to (supposedly) help them (or hand them more ballast)

What I encounter on a routine basis are divers trying to buy gear in anticipation of a "intro to tech" type course. (Kinda like the OP here) They want to get the gear *before* the course. These folks routinely need some help understanding the assumptions used to determine required ballast, and the tangible means used to achieve it. Failing either can result in gear they can't use.

The fact remains a diver in New York was asking about weighting to 2 x 100 cuft tanks. 200 cuft of gas is more than enough to get somebody into deco. Understanding that, and being prepared to deal with it has IMO no downside. That fact doubles are routinely used for no stop diving in some parts of the world doesn't change that either.

Tobin

 

[Storker]

Not a mod post

It was snarky and condescending by design.

If you think that, report it. Reports are dealt with by the mod corps irrespective of the status of the reported post/poster.

From the ToS:

If you feel that you have been attacked, please do not retaliate, instead use the "Report Post" at the bottom of each post to notify us.

Whilst a minor amount of off-topic posting may be overlooked, the general rule is your posts or threads must be relevant to the forum or thread in which you are posting.

How is this in any way relevant to the thread topic or the forum?

The full ToS are here: ScubaBoard FAQ - ScubaBoard

 

[cool_hardware52]

Not a mod post


If you think that, report it. Reports are dealt with by the mod corps irrespective of the status of the reported post/poster.

From the ToS:


How is this in any way relevant to the thread topic or the forum?

The full ToS are here: ScubaBoard FAQ - ScubaBoard

My expectations of unbiased moderation have evaporated. I know there are fair and unbiased mods, and I do not envy them their task, but I've seen other examples.

Besides, I'd rather leave your snark on full display.

Tobin

 

[ajduplessis]

Insulting the mods now?

 

[shoredivr]

Here in Ontario, seeing Great Lakes recreational divers in doubles is not unusual. I dived with two of them
yesterday. Plus three sidemounters with steel 100s, and 4 divers in single aluminum 80s.
A nice couple of drift dives in the Upper Niagara River.

 

[cool_hardware52]

Insulting the mods now?

Just reporting my experiences. Pretty simple.

Tobin

 

[cool_hardware52]

Here in Ontario, seeing Great Lakes recreational divers in doubles is not unusual. I dived with two of them
yesterday. Plus three sidemounters with steel 100s, and 4 divers in single aluminum 80s.
A nice couple of drift dives in the Upper Niagara River.

I never said that doubles cannot be used recreationally, never, not once.

Who you expect more likely to find themselves with a deco obligation, a diver who stating with ~80-100 cuft of gas or one that starts with 200+ cuft of gas?

What exactly is the downside of 1) Understanding the the risks posed by having more gas, & 2) Being weighted so you can in fact deal with a deco obligation?

The reality is the "accidental" deco diver is exactly the one who may find themselves pulling a vacuum on their back gas tanks while they hope their computer clears. More gas, and not enough planning is a great way to wander into deco without enough gas to get out......

Tobin

 

[shoredivr]

I never said that doubles cannot be used recreationally, never, not once.

Who you expect more likely to find themselves with a deco obligation, a diver who stating with ~80-100 cuft of gas or one that starts with 200+ cuft of gas?

What exactly is the downside of 1) Understanding the the risks posed by having more gas, & 2) Being weighted so you can in fact deal with a deco obligation?

The reality is the "accidental" deco diver is exactly the one who may find themselves pulling a vacuum on their back gas tanks while they hope their computer clears. More gas, and not enough planning is a great way to wander into deco without enough gas to get out......

Tobin

Oh, I agree that rec divers can get into deco with larger doubles. And should know the consequences.

I'm just reporting my observations of recreational divers this weekend, which is in contrast to your experience.

All were weighted appropriately.

 

[cool_hardware52]

Oh, I agree that rec divers can get into deco with larger doubles. And should know the consequences.

I'm just reporting my observations of recreational divers this weekend, which is in contrast to your experience.

All were weighted appropriately.

Er, uh, well, no. I've never said divers don't use doubles for recreational dives. I do it myself. What I have reported is, without exception, the divers I speak with that are making the transition from single to doubles are doing so to in anticipation of doing dives that require more gas than singles can provide. This additional gas is necessary either for redundancy, or longer / deeper dives that include staged decompression.

Never have if had a diver approach me for help selecting a BP&W for doubles with the expressed intent *always* staying within recreational limits. Never, not once have I had a diver tell me, "ya I want a doubles rig, but I have *no* plans of *ever* doing the dives beyond what I can do with a big single"

Do these same dives routinely dive their doubles on 60' reef bimbles? Without a double. Learning how to dive doubles typically involves a lot of shallow training / experience dives.

Rare would the diver that straps on doubles for the first time and dives the Doria........

Apparently it's unforgivable to suggest that a diver using 2X+ the gas they are accustomed to be weighted to deal with the potential consequences of that new gas volume. Why this is unforgivable has yet to be adequately explained.

Tobin

 

[211ratsbud]

Nice discussion but shouldn't a diver plan a dive anyways whether it be single 80 or double 149? Thereby eliminating the new double diver from trouble because he is a proficient dive planner. Planning isn't something that takes years to accomplish it's done on your open water dives.

I am a certified gold air hog. My 100cu will get me into trouble if I exceed my dive plan. In the great Lakes none the less