what full face masks

Discussion in 'Fins, Masks and Snorkels' started by trymixdiver, Feb 3, 2002.

  1. trymixdiver

    trymixdiver Manta Ray

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    Pls post your like or dislikes of full face masks. I perfere to hear from ppl who currently dive FFM and there opinions on what they are using. Also, very important to me is anyone using FFm with a side block for gas switching, if so describe your configuration.


    thx a bunch
     
  2. Ferrara

    Ferrara Guest

    I have the ocean reef ffm. I don't dive it much for two reasons:
    1, They are supposed to fit 80% of the people. I am in the 20%
    2, I dive a hogartheam config.

    I have seen various valve systems. But none I liked much. I don't want to breath the wrong gas due to a button being bumped. Then there is the long hose issues.

    However, I wouldn't discount the use of ffm. Communication could be a safety advantage. If you did take an 02 hit a ffm could increase your chances. I just have not worked everything out to my liking yet.
     
  3. Uncle Pug

    Uncle Pug Swims with Orca ScubaBoard Supporter

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    I was just about to respond and tell you why I sold my AGA but then I noticed the above and realized you were looking for something (?) else....
     
  4. Savitar

    Savitar Angel Fish

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    howdy,

    I too have the ocean reef ffm. I don't like it much, for 2 reasons.

    1. the internal volume is large, which makes the mask too buoyant.

    2. I can't get the reg to crack where I want. There's very little adjustment. I get tired inhaling.

    I also used a Cressi-Sub ffm, the style that was advertized with the Viking Unisuit. You can install any reg in it. Didn't have comm support, but good for dirty water.

    The best was the Kirby Morgan band mask However, I dove that one surface supplied. The gas block was just for a bailout bottle. All the blending was done topside. I'm not sure you can swim with it. I was standing.

    I just ordered two AGA masks to try them out.
    I wold like to know why Uncle Pug sold his!
    The SRT guys seem to love them.

    As to why I like ffms, I'm spoiled with having a comm unit, where I can talk to the surface support crew, and other divers. I personally believe that so many accidents would have been easily prevented if everyone was using comms. I've asked topside for tools and been able to shae intresting sights with my buddy.
    Also, I am quite loquacious (as you can see) and get lonley and bored if I stay quiet too long. :D

    happy days,
    Warren
     
  5. trymixdiver

    trymixdiver Manta Ray

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    let me explain a little why i am asking about using a FFM with a side block for gas switching. My buddy and i fabricated many side blocks until we configured the one i currently use. it was drilled and tapped from solid brass with custom swedgeloc ( i may have spelled that wrong) O2 valves. I am comfortable with this design but the fact that i dont see any other divers using them has made me question what i am doing. I feel i may have complicated my kit a bit too much. Its as simple as we can make it but, it has made gas switching a bit more challenging. Insted of just switching to my deco reg like in the past i am now having to ( using a SS quick connect) connect to my deco mix ( its disconnected during the dive to avoid breathing a deco mix at depth) then turn on my deco mix and shut off the bottom mix using a 1/4 turn ball valve. Sounds much harder than it is only takes a about 7 seconds. Basically the only reason for my side block set up is to allow the use of 2 deco mixes without the need to remove the FFM. Currently i use the side block with an Aga mask my buddy uses the EXO and has also tried his bandmask ( that was over kill for what we are doing). I am a bit concerned that my love for tech has gone a bit too far, and have i compromised safety by getting to tech ?

    I guess i dont have 100% faith using untested and unproven equipment, altho i have never had a problem as of yet ( knock on wood!)
     
  6. Uncle Pug

    Uncle Pug Swims with Orca ScubaBoard Supporter

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    1. That is where I figured you were going with this but I thought you were going to say that you had the perfect solution and try to sell it to other FFM users here....

    2. Good! Questioning is good.... but you are not the first down this path...

    3. Let me just say one word: "Maffetone"

    4. No...you have not compromised safety by getting into tech... you have compromised safety by bringing complexity and failure points to gas switching...
     
  7. trymixdiver

    trymixdiver Manta Ray

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    I would never use this forum to sell expiremental equipment, nor any other for that matter.

    excuse my ignorance but what is "Maffetone" ??
     
  8. Uncle Pug

    Uncle Pug Swims with Orca ScubaBoard Supporter

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    1. That is a big reason I didn't like the AGA but you can get weights for them...

    2. Yes on KM

    3. For tethered SS commercial/SR/harvest or contaminated water the FFM is the way to go. For technical diving I am not convinced... I sold my AGA when I got into tech diving DIR style and don't miss it. My DIR partner uses a KM band mask while geoduck harvesting only.

    As for communication... chattering back and forth is fine if you're SS but if you are using your back gas to talk you've got a problem. We use our HID light beams for both passive and active communication.... and it takes no extra gas!
     
  9. bradymsu

    bradymsu Scuba Instructor

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    Trymixdiver,

    Your questions are very legtimate. I am thinking along the same line but am not as far as you are in the process. I have yet to see a method for diving multiple deco gases from a ffm. It's my understanding that the tech divers who use ffm's remove them and use a backup mask with the second deco gas when they ascend to that point. Until I can find a solution, I'll just be using mine for recreational dives.

    I believe ffms will become much more widespread in the years ahead simply due to the underwater communication issue. In addition, they also have the advantage of dramatically lowering the chances of drowning following CNS convulsions and increasing comfort (thereby decreasing CO2 rentention) in cold water.
     
  10. Uncle Pug

    Uncle Pug Swims with Orca ScubaBoard Supporter

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    1. Sorry... I must have picked up on another thread that you were building a side block and jumped to the weong conclusion in this thread....

    2. Tony Maffetone:
    http://sailfish.neworleans.gulf.net/deep-tech/articles/maffatone_9.html
     
  11. Uncle Pug

    Uncle Pug Swims with Orca ScubaBoard Supporter

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  12. padiscubapro

    padiscubapro Tech Diver

    # of Dives: I'm a Fish!
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    Please don't uses Tony's name in that context.. I met him several time an he was a real nice guy (He doesn't deserve being put down).. He wasn't the first to die using experimental gear and he will not be the last. His equipment was very complicated and DIED while trying out a new design, he died doing something he loved to do.... I don't think we will ever truely know what the cause of his accident really was, we do know he cut himself out of his rig and did a free ascent from 110ft.. I don't think he deserves to be treated like "monica".
    I understand the reason he went to his rig (it dates back to a problem he has one time on the Doria where he had a gas problem, and the emergency gas that was supposed to be available at the deco stop wasn't), From that point he decided to always have more gas than he could ever need.
     
  13. Uncle Pug

    Uncle Pug Swims with Orca ScubaBoard Supporter

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    My apologies if you were offended....
    I didn't intend to use his name in *that way* but to point out that complexity can exact a price....

    The original poster was concerned about the complexity of his own rig and that gas switching had become more complicated....

    Being a nice guy and dying does not provide one with immunity from examination...
    Tony's name can never be separated from the context of his complicated rig...
     
  14. Lost Yooper

    Lost Yooper Loggerhead Turtle

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    I think the moral of the story is to not try and solve a problem (that's either not really a problem or is easily solved by other, simpler means) by introducing more potential problems. This is so common in diving that it's scary sometimes. People's imaginations can get the better of them sometimes -- some get lucky and some don't.

    If it seems weird, gimmicky, unusual, or extrodinary, then I'd be wary. Sometimes, you have to stand back and really think about what you are really trying to accomplish, and whether or not you are merely adding more problems than you're trying to solve. IMO, the last thing you want -- especially in this type of diving -- is gimmicks and convulations. You want simple, easy, uncomplicated, and clean while concentrating on risk reduction along the way. Having more "stuff" usually isn't a good solution to anything in diving.

    Take care.

    Mike
     
  15. trymixdiver

    trymixdiver Manta Ray

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    Well i found the article you posted to be very interesting. I was not aware that he died until i read the subsquent post. I do have concerns with the complexity of my rig. However, i dont consider my rigs Wright brothers complexity to that of Mr Mafftones F117 stealth fighter like complexity a risky gamble. My system is as simple as it could be to do its job correctly and with safety. My concern is that i could reduce dive stress by switching back to a standard Hogartheian configuration and hence reduce dive stress. I cant help but think what if! therefore i posed the question to see if others were even doing this. I as have learned it seams to be a questionable practice.

    Just to give you an idea of how simple this side block is:

    three 1/4 turn ball valves each containing 2 viton O rings. I solid brass milled block. 1 female SS O2 cleaned quick connects, and 2 male ss quick connects. Like i said this side block is ultra simple, bare bones if you will. So i need to make a decision on weather to simplify my rig or continue to use this. I have logged about a year on this side block say about 60 dives, all when perfectly.

    if anyone can point me to an analysis of his accident i would appreciate it very much.
     
  16. trymixdiver

    trymixdiver Manta Ray

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    Just a thanks for posting on this topic, i really do need to hear opinions from all. it would be foolish of me not to take advice from the wealth of knowedge this board and its members offer.
    :)
     
  17. Uncle Pug

    Uncle Pug Swims with Orca ScubaBoard Supporter

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    Hi Try...
    Give me what you have identified so far as potential failure points in your set up... including potential user errors

    Thanks
     
  18. Lost Yooper

    Lost Yooper Loggerhead Turtle

    # of Dives: I'm a Fish!
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    If you don't mind can we start at the beginning? Maybe some people on here can offer advice if they have some more background.

    What exactly are you trying to accomplish by using a FFM? I'm assuming you want it for your oxygen deco.

    What type of diving are you doing (O2 exposures, max depths, mix, O/W, cave, etc)?

    You're rigged hogarthian (which most of us either use or understand somewhat), but are there any aspects you choose to not use that might be relavent here (solo diving, stages on either side, etc)?

    Let's see if we can get started again.

    Mike
     
  19. trymixdiver

    trymixdiver Manta Ray

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    I am using the FFM to allow the switching to 2 different deco mixes without having to remove the FFM, hence the side block my buddy and I manufactured.

    In my original post i had some concerns with the complexity that this side block configuration has added.

    As far as the configuration goes, i am happy with it but it is un-proven and not tested except by me and my buddy who also dives the same configuration. Aslo, these valves are O2 valves but i bet they were not designed to be submerged in salt water. Being that i dont dive with the deco mixes connected to the block ( to avoid bumping a valve and sucking some deco mix at depth) the chance of breathing anything but my back mix is not possible, because its not connected til i need it. The side block is very simple yet what concerns me most is that if its this simple why are not more divers doing this! So to my buddy and I what seamed like a natural progression in equipment configuration no one else in our diving circle is even considering this application. And from what i am hearing on this board it is not really common at all. Also, is this side block configuration really even worth the trouble now with rebreather technology becomming what it is. After all isnt the future of tech diving going to be Rebreathers!

    Sorry to babble so much but i feel like i am at a crossroads and i think i can obtain some valuable guidence from this group of diving minds.

    or if im a total AS*hol* just leave me some shrinks name and Ph#
     
  20. Uncle Pug

    Uncle Pug Swims with Orca ScubaBoard Supporter

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    Well your not and I'm still interested in what you have identified as to the possible failure modes including operator error....

    Then I have some questions....
     

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