what is DIR

[Cave Diver]

pt40fathoms once bubbled...
One of my main concerns is that DIR and Halcyon happen to be so closely related. The hostile bias to any other manufacturer, other than the ones listed by the DIR advocates leaves a very cold feeling in me.

I have to somewhat agree with this statement. I was eagerly looking checking the mail every day for my DIR Fundamentals book from GUE. After it arrived and I started reading it I was rather disappointed by a few things. The first was that the back cover listed JJ as CEO of Halcyon and E/E. I bought the book to enhance my skills and training based on his diving abilities, not his business skills in starting and running two other companies.

I was also rather saddened that there were numerous mentions of the GUE website and DIRQuest in the book, as well as specific mentions of Halcyon products. The reason for this is because it appeard to ( keyword here---> ) *ME* that the mention of this stuff was somewhat of a marketing ploy. As someone pointed out earlier in this post, other manufacturers are starting to make DIR friendly gear now, so by making specific references to equimpent, etc. I feel that the book is in danger of becoming dated rather quickly. Not in the training or philosopy aspect, just in the gear aspect.

Halcyon may make *THE* wing for DIR diving now, but tomorrow someone else may improve on that. Just my *PERSONAL* opinion, but I would have preferred to see the book mention something along the lines that 'in choosing a wing, these minimum considerations must be taken into account' rather than saying "purchase a BC that is specifically designed for DIR, namely the Halcyon BC."

Reading some of the passages like that in the book, I felt in some ways they were plugging equipment sales for Halcyon, which the book stated JJ was CEO of.

Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with promoting a product (tho everyone screams that PADI is too $$ oriented), I just felt that for a training guide, this book crossed the line once or twice by recommending specific equipment. In 5 years I would like to be able to go back and find that all the information in it still holds true, and if it was strictly skills or training it would. Or if it just set a minimum requirement for each piece of equipment it would. I just felt that by giving a *SPECIFIC* recommendation, it opened up the possibility of becoming dated rather quickly. Or maybe this was the idea, so that we will have to buy a follow up book?

Again guys, this is NOT a flame post. I like the DIR system and I am taking one of the classes next weekend. I am just stating that these were a few things that bothered *ME* personally about it. I just don't see how the strict DIR advocates can complain about PADI (put another dollar in) when it appears to me that GUE is guilty of the same thing to some degree.

IMH experience, I have found that I can learn something from just about everybody, so I try not to close my mind to the opinions or of any person or group.

Just my $.02...

 

[kwesler]

I agree with you Cavediver-what you said I feel makes great sense. It may not have been marketing so much as the feeling that there was NOT a lot of choice for "DIR blessed" equipment, so it was easier in the book to suggest a manufacturer, rather than, for example, having to get into a long discussion about bungied vs. non bungied wings.

Another way to put it is the kleenex vs tissue analogy. Kleenex was, if not the first, then certainly the first to successfully brand themselves as THE facial tissue. Many people still refer to call tissue as "kleenex".

So DIR has become intertwined with Halcyon somewhat inevitably, whether or not JJ intentionally pursued that end. Although I have to say, what is wrong with him doing that. We all have to make a living

So if he can present a methodology he believes in, at the same time that he sells eqipment he believes is entirely appropriate for that methodology, AND make a buck, I say more power to ya!

I have the ability to reason for myself, and my blood pressure does not rise as a result of the forceful advocacy of anything. I am unbullyable! [And I am not sure anyone is being a bully anyway]

 

[Cave Diver]

medic13 once bubbled...
my self I like every thing I see but one the wings (back bladder) I dont like them yes I have tried them and its my personal choice to contiune to dive the vest BC so I guess I will never be able to take part in this all though I do believe there core program from what I read is great !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Medic

Long before I ever heard of DIR, I switched from a jacket style BC to a Transpac II from Dive-Rite. It did take a little getting used to and several dives to get all the adjustments where I felt comfortable in it. For back inflation I learned that a crotchstrap was a must! It also took a few tries to learn how to wear a crotcshtrap comfortably.

A backplate may not be for you, but I would suggest you dont give up looking into other alternatives. Two of my dive buddies now run the Transpac II as well and are loving it as much as I did. There is a lot to be said for back inflation if you have a little bit of time to dive it and get it adjusted right.

Now me and one of those buddies have moved onto backplates. I still have a lot to learn about that style of diving, but to me diving is a state of constant evolution and I have to learn to adapt when better things come along.

 

[Cave Diver]

kwesler once bubbled...
I have the ability to reason for myself, and my blood pressure does not rise as a result of the forceful advocacy of anything. I am unbullyable! [And I am not sure anyone is being a bully anyway]

I didnt feel as if they were trying to 'force' Halcyon on us. I just felt that I would have preferred to have a minimum standard to look for in equipment, which in fairness, it did an excellent job explaining this for most items. I just felt it should have stopped with that, rather than say 'namely the Halcyon BC.'

Of course, when I write a book, then I guess I can say it anyway I want to huh?

Like I stated in my previous post, I like to refer back to my books and training guides from time to time. In a year, if there is something better on the market (as there well may be) specific references like that just make the book seem dated to me. And when it seems dated, that just makes me question whether the training may be as well...

 

[JamesK]

Halcyon was born out of the need for better gear. The same folks who now make Halcyon gear, used to use DiveRite gear. They saw a way to improve on DiveRites gear, so they did it. They built gear specifically for their type of diving, DIR diving. This is why you will see the references to Halcyon so much. If someone out there improves on the Halcyon wing, you can almost gaurantee that Halcyon will make changes. (BTW, I am not knocking DiveRite, as I do use some of their gear)

As for JJ being listed as the CEO of Halcyon and EE, this gives him credibility in the book. It shows the people who might not now JJ from Bulwinkle, that he is directly in the industry. It is sort of like when you read a news article and it says at the bottom "Mr Writer is a freelance writer who regularly submits articles to teh WSJ, and is the author of several best selling books on finance including "The Bulls are coming to town; A how to guide at making the NYSE work for you"

 

[Cave Diver]

JamesK once bubbled...
As for JJ being listed as the CEO of Halcyon and EE, this gives him credibility in the book. It shows the people who might not now JJ from Bulwinkle, that he is directly in the industry.

I'm not knocking JJ, just in my opinion, I felt the information about EE and Halcyon was not relevant. I can however understand your point. It's just to me, his position as founder of GUE and his involvement with WKPP lends much more credibility to his involvement in the industry than Halcyon or EE does. I am just more interested at this point in learning to dive correctly with the equipment I already have. If I have something that is completely inadequate, then yes, I am glad to know that there is somewhere like EE that can sell me the correct stuff.

I also think that those people who are buying the DIR book probably already know who JJ is. I can't speak for where you live and dive at, but around here you cant find that book at the local newstand or for that matter even at my LDS. I had to order it from GUE and before I order something, I personally like to know as much as I can about it.

I applaud the fact that JJ is involved in all aspects of diving from training to equipment. I also don't fault anyone from making a good living, especially if they can do it in a sport they love. I am also glad that GUE has brought some of the skills of the WKPP to the masses.

Just because there are a few things I dont like in the presentation, doesn't mean I don't like the message.

 

[Uncle Pug]

Perhaps another way of looking at the inclusion of JJ's relationship with Halcyon and EE is that it gives the reader a heads up as the author's possible bias in equipment recommendations.... certainly if that information had been left out folks would be howling about that too.

But the reason that the writer of the DIRF book recommends the Halcyon wings specifically as an *examples* of the right kind of wing to use is because, at this point, they are the wings that fit the DIR ideal. If you don't want to buy Halcyon then at least go look closely at one... maybe take a digital picture... and then go forth and find one like it made by the manufacturer of your choice.

As James has pointed out the Halcyon products were developed in response to the unresponsiveness of the rest of the dive industry. Unable to get the manufacturers to product equipment to their specifications they were forced to design and have their own wing made and thankfully they have not kept this *inhouse* but went public with it and now it is available to those outside of the WKPP.

It really is possible to dive DIR without purchasing any Halcyon equipment other than, I would say, the Halcyon wing. Perhaps we will see other manufacturers jump on the DIR bandwagon and make a similarly dimensioned wing.... and then it will be possible to *do it right* in a non-Halcyon environment though I really can't understand the aversion to buying the best just because it claims to be the best

Egomotional road-blocks to progress have been with us throughout human history. History favors those who can get over it.

 

[kwesler]

for all of the talk about the arrogance of DIR divers, my experience with bad attitude comes from other divers, toward me, when I am innocently wearing my GUE t-shirt. Or even stranger, the backhanded compliments like "you are the only GUE guy I ever liked"!

BTW-I support GUE because I believe in it. I hav yet to begin taking courses...I have not felt ready.

Ken

 

[Scuba]

Uncle Pug wrote:

though I really can't understand the aversion to buying the best just because it claims to be the best

Here is the rub - "claim". I have yet to see or hear any mention of studies, tests, that prove that a B/P with a Halcyon wing is overall better than all other brands or BC's out there. Generally the results derived from scientifc comparison of one product to another will bring to light each products operational capabilities and characteristics. With any particular product being "better" in some specific aspects, and "worse" in other aspects when compared to other products. Seldom will one excell in all variables studied.

This type of evidence lets everyone choose the product based on the qualities they consider most important to them, and may arguably prove to many people which is better - overall. If you are shopping for a digital camera you will find a vast diversity in capabilities. For example if you consider pixels the most important aspect to you, you can go out and buy the one with the most pixels. At the same time to say that the one with the most pixels is the best camera "overall" neglects to consider the relative importance of all other aspects, how these have different relative importance to different people, and how the importance of specific qualities change under different situations/objectives.

I've heard how many here dismiss magazines such as Rodale's, but they do conduct tests on products allowing comparison of one to another. If you question the results you are free to replicate the tests and see for yourself. This is something that is not available when the determination that a product is better than another is based on one or many persons opinion, no matter how expert or experienced they may be. Opinions are opinions. Ever hear of the placebo affect, sometimes things are not what they appear to be.

By the way a couple of you have mentioned that you will be taking DIRF soon. Will you please give us some feedback when you're done.

Peter

 

[Cave Diver]

Uncle Pug once bubbled...
It really is possible to dive DIR without purchasing any Halcyon equipment other than, I would say, the Halcyon wing. Perhaps we will see other manufacturers jump on the DIR bandwagon and make a similarly dimensioned wing.... and then it will be possible to *do it right* in a non-Halcyon environment though I really can't understand the aversion to buying the best just because it claims to be the best

UP,

Again, I am not Anti-DIR. In fact, I am leaning more down the path of the DIR advocacy. I was simply stating that it bothered *ME PERSONALLY* to see what *I FELT* was the promotion of certain products that would benefit the author financially. I don't recall (and someone please correct me if I wrong) any other product being named specifically such as Scuba Pro Jet fins, DUI drysuits or Apeks regs.

My point here is this (and again, someone correct me if I am wrong): My understanding of GUE is that it was developed to fill a need to better train advanced and technical divers, NOT to sell gear. I understand completely the need for better gear to meet the demands of some types of diving, and I applaud JJ and others for being the ones to make this happen. The rub of it is this; many people look at organizations such as PADI with disdain because they feel that part of PADI's training pushes gear sales, and they revere GUE because it focuses solely on training.

Again *MY OPINION* is that the mention of a specific brand of gear by an author, who also happens to be CEO of the company that makes said gear, *COULD BE* interpreted by some as a plug to promote sales for that company.

Whether this was done intentionally or not doesn't matter. I feel that it is his right as an author to put whatever he wants to in his book. But by doing so in *MY OPINION* it takes a little bit away from the focus of the book.

Will this make me change my mind about GUE and DIR? No. I feel that I am open minded enough to evaluate each based on their own merits. I don't like some of the things our government does either, but I'm not going to move out of the country because of it.

Would I buy Halcyon wings? When I need a new pair I will certainly take a long hard look at them. But I'm not going to trash the equipment I have now just so I can have all the 'correct' DIR gear (and I know this is not what they are advocating). To me DIR is more of a philosophy.

I feel that you can 'be' DIR by having the philosophy and configuring your existing gear correctly, but having all the right gear in the perfect configuration without the philosophy doesnt make you a DIR diver.

I guess I will find out some of these answers next weekend when I take my DIRF class. Tyler Moon is teaching, but supposedly JJ is going to be there as well, so it should be very interesting. Since I am on the subject of DIRF now, I understand they have a videographer that tapes the class. Does anyone know if it is possible to get copies of the tapes for ourselves so we can continue to review?